Thread: Where do i start?

Tweet

Hey everyone! So i've been looking for a new motor for my 35 ford....I was poking around on craigslist and came across a 302 motor with a c4 trans for $100......i was a little skeptical about the deal at first, but i ended up driving out to take a look at the motor anyway. Well after a quick lookover, i ended up buying the motor. The guy i bought the motor from took it out of his 68 mustang, but he said that the motor originally came from a 79 mustang. He also told me that the trans was slipping but the motor ran good before he yanked it out. Apparently he rebuilt the motor a few years back and he said it should have about 300-375 hp. Here in lies my question... i know that these motors are about 140hp stock....how do know what upgrades, if any the motor has internally? Additionally, considering that i don't 100% that the motor runs.....i'm going to have to check everything out. I don't really know what to look for aside from doing a compression test. Any help/pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

For the princely sum of $100, you have to assume that you have purchased a bone stock core. Tear into it and see what's there.

The stock heads were worse than awful, I know, I had a '79 motor that I rebuilt to go into my Mitsubishi truck. If the heads are stock Ford castings, your estimate of 140 hp is probably real close.

Originally Posted by techinspector1

For the princely sum of $100, you have to assume that you have purchased a bone stock core. Tear into it and see what's there.

The stock heads were worse than awful, I know, I had a '79 motor that I rebuilt to go into my Mitsubishi truck. If the heads are stock Ford castings, your estimate of 140 hp is probably real close.

i agree 100% to get 300 or (especially) 375 you will see some pretty obvious parts changes. if it is indeed a 300 plus motor you have there they did a great job making it look like a sleeper. pull a head off and i would have to think the pistons are aftermarket,roller rockers,noticable head work(or aftermarket heads to get you in that hp range. hope this helps,but for 100 bucks i think you probably did alright even if not.

There is one other thing to consider that you haven't mentioned. You say you want to put this in your 35 Ford, and while I am a Ford guy at heart I have to tell you that fitting one of these into your car will not be a piece of cake. Yes, they are narrow, but they are also long. The front mounted oil pump also presents some issues with crossmember clearance.

I have essentially the same engine room on my 46 Ford but when I build that car it will most probably get a 350 Chevy to save me from hacking up the firewall and moving the engine 3-4 inches into the passenger compartment. I know people have put the Fords into these cars, but it is just a lot more work.

You can shorten up the Ford engine with Ford Racing's short water pump setup, and I did that on my 27 to save 1.5 inches. But it requires you to buy a special timing cover, water pump, pulleys, and damper. I think all of that ended up costing me well over $ 1000 by the time I was done.

Just thought you should take out a tape measure and size up your engine room before you commit to that sbf. To show you how long these engines are, look at how far I had to set back the one in my 27, and even with the short water pump kit I still clear the electric fan by about 1/4 inch!

Don

Edit: Ok, I just read your other thread, looks like you are cutting up the car pretty far for the bags and MMII, so I guess you won't mind a little more surgery on the firewall.

Hey thanks for the info guys....just finshed with finals today so I'll be pulling the valve covers off this weekend to take a peak. If i see something cool, i might just take the heads off also for kicks and see what's going on under there. Just out of curiosity, what would it take to $wise to get this motor to 300-400hp? I'm asuming news heads and a rebuild? Going to be n/a obviously.....

[QUOTE=DaDdY's DrEaM;. Just out of curiosity, what would it take to $wise to get this motor to 300-400hp? I'm asuming news heads and a rebuild? Going to be n/a obviously.....[/QUOTE]

Well, in my case about $ 7K.

Don

Here are the parts I might start with. Each of us has his own ideas of how to achieve a certain power level, but this is sort of what I might do. I'd build the motor to around 9.7:1 static compression ratio. I'm just listing the major parts. There will be another few dozen players as well. When I get time, I'll try to run up a DynoSim for you.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-5023/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-94055/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-CL222725-10/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7121/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-85621/

You can see that just these 5 major items add up to over $3,000 and you haven't started with machine shop time or assembly or shipping of parts or the other dozens of items that will be required to make a complete motor. And those headers are plain steel. If you want to ceramic coat them, add another 500 bucks. I did not choose these headers for your application. I just showed some generic SBF headers.

WoW!!!!!!!! Thanks for listing those parts for me. That's a lot of $$$$....is there a reason why i preasembled crate motors seem like they would be a bit cheaper? THis is an example: http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...P-Crate-Engine
I know that every motor is different, but what's up with all the wild price variation on motors with roughly the same hp? This may reveal my total lack of experience on this topic but all my cars i've had aside from this have been hondas and all you need to work on the is a 10mm socket & ratchet Either way, I guess if it's going to be that much money to do the build seems liek a crate motor might be on my future list of items to purchase....in the mean time, maybee i can do some mild mods to the motor i have just for a bit more umph.....lets say a $1500 budget.......i'm lost

I almost forgot to ask...but what are the advantages/disadvantages that are present in a high reving SBF as opposed to a torquer (I think thats what they call it)? As I said in the previous post, i'm used to driving Hondas so i'm used to the high reving motors + i tend to wind my gears all the way to redline pretty regularly ....

Those crate engines can be a real deal, and are sometimes cheaper than we can build one because we pay retail for each and every part. But that long block for $ 3600 is still far from done, you will have another $ 2K at least in additional parts to get it complete and running........stuff like intake, carb or carbs, pulleys, flex plate or flywheel and clutch assembly, headers, distributor, etc, etc, etc. The little parts we never think about start adding up real fast when we build one of these engines.

Don

Originally Posted by DaDdY's DrEaM

is there a reason why i preasembled crate motors seem like they would be a bit cheaper?

If you haven't learned this yet, you will....
"You get what you pay for".

Good news everyone! So i've convinced my buddy that's a mechanic to help me rebuild the 302! It's a good friend of mine so all the labor will be paid for with beer (lots of it ) and Pizza!!!!!!!! So now i can start planning out where i'm going with this finally.... @ TechInspector....those parts you listed earlier...would they make my redline at least 8000rpm? Just kinda want to get an idea....i'm picking up a motor stand on Monday and will begin with the teardown....this way at least i know what coming out and whats going to be going back in....I'm wondering if it's going to cost a sufficient amount more $ to get the motor to 400 hp.......is there a comlete kit available as far as internals go...one that has everything.....don't know anything about compression or other specific data so i'd prefer to just buy a package deal....but planning all the internals seperately will require a very big helping hand.

check into a trick flow kit,comes with heads cam intake etc and will get you close to your 300-400 range your looking for. i picked my heads (alum. edelbrock) up used for 450 with 1.6 rollor rockers. now thats the only time ive heard of a deal like that and thats why i snagged them up but you can find them used for around 800 with rockers alot of times. just keep your eyes open and you can find a great deal every once in a while. same with intakes and cams if money is an issue. will this be carbed or injected?

Thanks for the info venom.....I'll be running a garb set up.....but once again my inexperience has me feeling like I don't know what parts to get.....even picking out a kit will be like shooting in the dark for me considering that I don't have a clue about compression and differences in cam size ext... I'm. Thinking hat perhaps it's best for me to educate myself on the subject before I go out and start buying parts.....anyone know about any online resources hat can school ne on basic engine internals info of build guides?

sbftech.com they are well versed out for beginners and pros at this site . Start at the beginning and read on and a lot . They have a forum just for rookies to ask so look for it and dont be afraid .