Thread: Fixing a strange engine noise and then some

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When you get in a hurry, some things happen.

Way back when my engine was being done, I forgot to order hardened push rods for my upgraded camshaft/rockers/springs. While looking for that strange noise, decided to pull a rocker - oops, the regular OEM push rods are galled - and my guess is that they flexed and contacted the head. And no, with a mild hydraulic cam and fairly 'light' springs, guide plates should not be really needed.

Now - that strange noise - might have just been a very loose water pump pulley. Since I can barely get to the flat socket head screws with an allen wrench, there is no Loc-Tite on them - so if that fixes my problem, it will just be a regular maintenance item. If it's something else, and internal to the engine - it might just get interesting (read that as expensive as well as time consuming)

Originally Posted by IC2

When you get in a hurry, some things happen.

Way back when my engine was being done, I forgot to order hardened push rods for my upgraded camshaft/rockers/springs. While looking for that strange noise, decided to pull a rocker - oops, the regular OEM push rods are galled - and my guess is that they flexed and contacted the head. And no, with a mild hydraulic cam and fairly 'light' springs, guide plates should not be really needed.

Now - that strange noise - might have just been a very loose water pump pulley. Since I can barely get to the flat socket head screws with an allen wrench, there is no Loc-Tite on them - so if that fixes my problem, it will just be a regular maintenance item. If it's something else, and internal to the engine - it might just get interesting (read that as expensive as well as time consuming)

Hey Dave, good to see you posting! Sorry you're posting potential engine problems. Hope tightening the water pump pulley makes it purr like a kitten!

guide plates help keep rocker tip on track with valve stem tip with out the rockers can track off the side of valve stem and rocker can start pushing on the valve spring retainers . many of the iron heads have guide slots in them if not a rail rocker tip tracks valve stem center or guide plate . if your using alum heads then you need guide plates and a harden push rods if not they will flay the push rods if not harden. not from flex but side to side movement eatting away the soft push rod . if using a shaft rocker set up then there is no need for any guide plates . a harden push rod will help on flex some but more needed when using a push rod guide plate . i will add a word of caution that there some cheap guide plates (over seas ) out there that are not hard and in time the hard push rods will fill file threw them and if let go,then you will see bad things. many companys jump on the cheap plates and put there name on them and sold them under there name there is alot of bad valve train parts out there

Hope that fixes things Dave! Things do get crowded on the front of the engine on many builds!!!!!

Pat - thanks for the education on guide plates. Not going to use the guide plate even though I do a set of Manley's left over from my last 351W and never used. With the hydraulic lifters, I would need shorter push rods by about the thickness of the plates - plus I'm using reasonably stock iron heads

Randy - it's not that I don't check in daily, just am cutting back with too many other things going on now. I too hope that the loose pulley 'cures' the noise. If not, I'll have to do an engine tear down.

Dave S - I'm probably going to change the fasteners on that pulley to hex heads and heavy duty washers - too many skinned knuckles

I don't get what you mean by needing shorter push rods if you use guide plates?????????????

What heads, rockers and valves are you using???

And a lot of wierd noises come from loose flex plates/torque converters

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

I don't get what you mean by needing shorter push rods if you use guide plates?????????????

What heads, rockers and valves are you using???

And a lot of wierd noises come from loose flex plates/torque converters

OOPS - should have said longer push rods - the guide plates, as normal, on a pedestal mount Ford head mount under the rockers - which will tell you that my cleaned up GT40P iron heads, mild Ford hydraulic roller cam, 3 angled stock valves, 1.7 Crane Energizer rockers, Crane springs, retainers and locks aren't a real high performance combo, but set up for street reliability.

Yeah, I know about flex plates and torque converters, except that noise seems to be in the front, RHS. I had the inspection/dust shield off over the winter and everything "appears" ok

when going to a guide plate most all the time you will cut stud tower down on heads . then bore out the guide holes in the head. then go to adjustable rocker stud not the 5/16 screws that hold the rockers on that tin track .if heads has i guide hole in head there is no need for guide plates .the first thing i do is to get the heads so i can go to adjustable valve train less a bone stock engine

Originally Posted by IC2

Dave S - I'm probably going to change the fasteners on that pulley to hex heads and heavy duty washers - too many skinned knuckles

Geez, thought I was the only one that had that problem!!!! Different hardware and a bit of blue loctite should cure the problem!

OK - (thanks first for those that helped some on my education) my new push rods arrived along with a couple other semi related parts and I'll be putting the engine back together and hoping no more strange noises.

I'm putting in new spark plugs - nahh, doesn't really need them, mileage wise, just want to....... The gap - normal for this crate engine is .054. I have a complete MSD - coil, box and distributor, 9.5 c.r., mild Ford Racing 'E' camshaft . Is that a good gap or should they be opened a bit to say .060 or so? I looked on the MSD forum and they are kinda wishy wash - basically suggesting copper core plugs (the new NGK 'G's aren't) then maybe play around for a sweet spot starting in somewhere .035 and going up from there once you weed through their blather - HUH!!

Any suggestions?? Comments?

I'd try .060 Dave, should be plenty of spark to shoot that gap. What number NGK?

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

I'd try .060 Dave, should be plenty of spark to shoot that gap. What number NGK?

Dave - they are 3403 (TR55GP). Here are their advertising words about them:

G-Power (one below the top $$$ Iridium)
Improved Fuel Efficiency, Lower Emissions, Quicker Starts.

Fine platinum tip reduces required voltage
Extremely durable under high heat
Trivalent Metal Plating - superior anti-corrosion and anti-seizing properties
Superior anti-fouling characteristics
Faster starts and quicker acceleration
Better fuel economy and lower emissions

And that MSD spark - it is extremely strong (and a personal zap by that spark is 'enlightening'!!!!)

I'll try the .060 gap

Originally Posted by IC2

OK - (thanks first for those that helped some on my education) my new push rods arrived along with a couple other semi related parts and I'll be putting the engine back together and hoping no more strange noises.

I'm putting in new spark plugs - nahh, doesn't really need them, mileage wise, just want to....... The gap - normal for this crate engine is .054. I have a complete MSD - coil, box and distributor, 9.5 c.r., mild Ford Racing 'E' camshaft . Is that a good gap or should they be opened a bit to say .060 or so? I looked on the MSD forum and they are kinda wishy wash - basically suggesting copper core plugs (the new NGK 'G's aren't) then maybe play around for a sweet spot starting in somewhere .035 and going up from there once you weed through their blather - HUH!!

Any suggestions?? Comments?

i have have good luck at .035 to .045 with the msd stuff no need to go that big less you want to check if your plug wires for leaksno need to buy any plugs better then a copper core .. ngk.s or denso.s accel.s all have the U goove . i use only auto lites. any thing other then AC.s you can play with this stuff but. i never seen any thing .i a low dollar plug guy

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

i have have good luck at .035 to .045 with the msd stuff no need to go that big less you want to check if your plug wires for leaksno need to buy any plugs better then a copper core .. ngk.s or denso.s accel.s all have the U goove . i use only auto lites. any thing other then AC.s you can play with this stuff but. i never seen any thing .i a low dollar plug guy

Pat - why would you go less then at least the original, and in this case, .054? I was under the impression that these gaps were optimized for the electronic ignition systems, fuel charge burn efficiency/gas mileage (tho I really don't care so much about that-it's a fun car, not a daily driver). Granted, I used to use .035 on my past push rod Fords with the Dura Spark ignition even with an MSD box and coil in a couple cases. Heck, if that's a better gap, and I know why, I'll 'fix' the plugs now

As far as those plugs, from Rock Auto at about $2.50 each including postage is cheaper then I can buy a copper core Auto-Lite locally - even Wally World. (Heck, a plug is cheaper now then a quart of their house brand oil)

well your not using a ford box ? msd box ? all the msd s i used and that s many some were i was told to use 035 to 045 this is more to keep the plugs from blowing out with hi cr .opening up the plug gap your trying to do what? better burn. building more coil out put . spark dwell time ? and use a finite tip plug$$ that will do zip for you ?? with the msd you have this is multiple spark. no need to open up the gap but i could be way wrong but it works for me