Thread: Need Information On Later Model 302 Engines

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To start with I'm a lot more familiar with small block Chevy engines since that's what I've built and I currently have a 66 Chevy II. Anyway, I have bought a 64 Falcon 2 door hardtop and the guy has a 302 and AOD transmission that he pulled out of an 89 Mercury Grand Marquis that had a little over 80,000 miles. I'm assuming this would be a roller cam engine. I intend to remove the fuel injection and switch back to a carburetor. I know, why would I want to do that? It's because I just don't like to see a modern looking engine when I raise the hood of an old classic. That's just my personal taste, no offense to anyone. Anyway, I know I have to switch timing chain covers to run a mechanical fuel pump and switch intake manifolds. I plan on changing cams to a little better one but I'm not sure which would be the best one for it. 302 roller cam and lifter kits are terribly expensive. Are there some good ones from Ford Racing? One thing I'm unsure about is the heads. Are the heads on these any good or do I need to switch to different ones? If so what are some good cast iron heads to go with? What are some good factory heads? I'm not interested in aluminum heads. I need to know what type of torque converter to run with the AOD and probably a 3.55 rear gear. I won't be racing, it will be a cruiser but I want a pretty good motor in it. Any information I can get would be great.

Originally Posted by tidefan66

To start with I'm a lot more familiar with small block Chevy engines since that's what I've built and I currently have a 66 Chevy II. Anyway, I have bought a 64 Falcon 2 door hardtop and the guy has a 302 and AOD transmission that he pulled out of an 89 Mercury Grand Marquis that had a little over 80,000 miles. I'm assuming this would be a roller cam engine. I intend to remove the fuel injection and switch back to a carburetor. I know, why would I want to do that? It's because I just don't like to see a modern looking engine when I raise the hood of an old classic. That's just my personal taste, no offense to anyone. Anyway, I know I have to switch timing chain covers to run a mechanical fuel pump and switch intake manifolds. I plan on changing cams to a little better one but I'm not sure which would be the best one for it. 302 roller cam and lifter kits are terribly expensive. Are there some good ones from Ford Racing? One thing I'm unsure about is the heads. Are the heads on these any good or do I need to switch to different ones? If so what are some good cast iron heads to go with? What are some good factory heads? I'm not interested in aluminum heads. I need to know what type of torque converter to run with the AOD and probably a 3.55 rear gear. I won't be racing, it will be a cruiser but I want a pretty good motor in it. Any information I can get would be great.

Once you remove the intake you'll know for certain if it is indeed a roller motor, but if it is from 89 it should be.. heads, the gt40 & gt40P are probably what you're after, the "P's" flow the best and came from the factory. Cams - well there are a bunch from Ford racing, there's a whole "Letter Series"... but you should choose a cam mfg. and discuss you're goals with them. The torque converter... with an AOD.. stay close to stock if your just cruisin, I wouldn't exceed 1800 - 2000 stall.

Oh, and maybe share a couple of pics?

The engine is probably a roller engine, so that said, can be the basis for a decent build using mostly Ford parts. As said above, the GT40 P heads were found on most Explorers/Mountaneers, '97 to at least '01. They actually flow a bit better even with the smaller exhaust valves and for sure have a much better compression ratio (59cc vs 65 cc combustion chamber volume)

Camshafts - the 'E' Ford Racing, while not any ball of fire is fine with an auto transmission, 2200 stall converter with a nice idle, lumpy but no overly so that it becomes a hassle to drive.

Intakes - the Edelbrock Performer is ok, the Performer RPM, soooo much better. I'm partial to an Edelbrock 600 cfm carb - stupid simple to set up and runs just fine for the street.

Ignition - either revert to a Dura Spark or go full MSD (cheap vs $$$$$). With the steel camshaft you will need a steel or bronze or even one of the engineering plastic gear. You will also need a replacement harmonic balancer with timing marks.

Front cover - this gets interesting and depends on what fuel and/or water pump you end up with as you may need a camshaft eccentric to drive the fuel pump. Then you get into brackets and pulleys

Flex plate - to match your torque converter, also needs to be 50in oz balance.

Oh yeah, I've done just what you are looking to do - 'interesting', not inexpensive but not unreasonable:

DSCN1748.jpg

Not to change the subject, but that is a beautiful engine in a gorgeous car. Yesterday at the Street Rod Nats I saw more Fords in Fords than I've sen in the last ten years.

After reading a ton of stuff online I've about decided to pickup a set of GT40 heads. From what I've read, you can run into some issues with exhaust manifolds and headers with the GT40P heads due to the spark plug angle. As far as a cam, I was looking at the B303 or E303 from Ford Racing. I have an Edelbrock 600 manual choke carburetor sitting on a shelf that I was running on my 327 in my 66 Chevy II but I was having terrible heat soak issues with it. I tried everything from wood spacers to playing with float levels, etc. I eventually switched to a Quadrajet I sent off and had totally reworked. Problem solved. I might try it on this 302. What type of pistons would be in this 302 out of the Mercury and would they be worth keeping? Do the B303 or E303 cams come with an eccentric for a mechanical fuel pump? My plan for this engine since it has less than 90,000 miles and if everything checks out, is to put bearings, rings, and an oil pump in it and swap cams, lifters, and heads. I should be able to use the flex plate that's on the engine as long as it's not damaged. I'm sure I'll have to change balancers and of course pulleys since I won't be running a serpentine setup.

OK - couple answers/statements = headers can be interesting, but with mine, using Sanderson FF1 block huggers, only one plug presents a problem and that was 'fixed with a modified 5/8 socket. You do have to tell Donna at Sanderson what heads and they will provide the right headers. My guess is that even my 'problem' has been addressed by now.

You do need to add a fuel pump eccentric, new bolt and a correct length drive pin. Summit has the eccentrics and the correct ARP bolt. The drive pin was obsoleted by Ford on Oct 27, 2010( I know, trivia, but I went looking for one in Nov 2010) - but McMaster Carr has a box of 25 of the correct diameter and length for not much money. The photo below is why you shouldn't use the Ford 2 piece eccentric. I tore the drive tab off the one on the right. The left one is the replacement - looks like you will have to click on the link to open the photo



Edelbrock Performer carbs drain back - that's a fact of life. I'm using a 1" four hole phenolic spacer and it isn't quite as bad as the aluminum piece I had used.

Use a new ARP oil pump drive - seem to be a better piece then the Ford Racing.

OEM pistons should be cast flat top with 4 eyebrows. On a mild engine, probably fine. If the engine needs a bore, then the hypereutectic would be my choice unless you went for a blower/turbo, then the choice would be forged

Allways good to see fords in fords,in Australia probably more common than in U.S.A. because ford motors were usually more easy to obtain then chevs. But far to many chev motors in fords for my liking.I've had a 283 chev in my 35 ford coupe died with less then 30,000k's on the clock , got it rebuilt then it dropped the after market oil filter adapter at around 4 thousand k's DEAD AGAIN. Built up a 350, touch wood was good.My 39 ford has a 283 in it, big end knock at 5 thousand k's,rebuilt it so far so good,but i'm starting to hate chev's . All this time my brother has had a 302 windsor in his 35 Dodge that been super reliable for 15 yrs whilst he's been to a lot more rod runs and hence k's on his rod with no rebuilds. For my current build projects in my 37 ford coupe ute,351 cleveland (aussie block), ran fine in donner car but valve guide smoke as was high klms. Will rebuild but tossing up wether to stroke it. In my other project 35 desoto airstream flat back, 5ltr ford windsor 1997 injected from XR8 falcon with aod and lsd diff,will use as much as possible from donner car!. 80,000 k's and ran great so don't plan on touching it except maybe dress up. Interesting it seems common over here to put ford donks in dodges (mopars) and i've seen a few ford donks in chev's too (ha ha). So no more chevs for me i hope because i haven't had good luck with them. Probably parts are cheap for chev's because they sell so many for rebuilds.

So after doing some reading it seems that the early 90's Mustang GT 302 was rated at 225HP and the Cobra at 235HP. I was a little surprised since I thought they would be closer to 300. What would it take to get a late 80's/early 90's 302 up to 300HP? As I said earlier I plan to use the block assembly from the Mercury and swap heads and cam as well as going to a carburetor setup, probably a Performer RPM. If the GT40 heads have 65cc combustion chambers then couldn't I go with a small dome top piston to get the compression back up? The aluminum ones that Ford Racing sells claim to give you 65HP but those are pretty expensive.

Originally Posted by tidefan66

So after doing some reading it seems that the early 90's Mustang GT 302 was rated at 225HP and the Cobra at 235HP. I was a little surprised since I thought they would be closer to 300. What would it take to get a late 80's/early 90's 302 up to 300HP? As I said earlier I plan to use the block assembly from the Mercury and swap heads and cam as well as going to a carburetor setup, probably a Performer RPM. If the GT40 heads have 65cc combustion chambers then couldn't I go with a small dome top piston to get the compression back up? The aluminum ones that Ford Racing sells claim to give you 65HP but those are pretty expensive.

If you are staying with iron heads, the GT40P have a 59cc chamber('97-'01 Explorer) and a much better flow rate even with a bit smaller exhaust valve. Plugs can be a bother to get out, needing proper head specific headers but many Mustangs are running these heads. You then, assuming you are staying with Ford parts, can install one of their 'letter' camshafts. Pedestal mount rockers should be changed out for stud mounts using the Crane mod kit or, better yet, have them machined for proper 3/8 or 7/16 inch studs. Find my current post here on my trials and pain with pedestal mount rockers. Then, a good ignition - either a DuraSpark or an MSD or similar. With that, should be near the 300Hp mark. Oh and the 1.7 rockers - today, installing my new Crane 1.6 stud mounts, have found signs of some minor interference on the retainers