Thread: Followed Me Home, '33 Build

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Really looks great Roger!!!! I still like the belts, especially on a classy looking setup like the front of your engine. Did my pick-em-up with serpentine, but mainly cuz it was stuff I already had laying around left over from other projects.... The whole car is really taking shape and lookin' good!!! Hope to get a chance to come for a visit this summer if you don't mind giving free rides to old hippies, that is!!!!

Heck Dave you can come to Northern Ca. for a visit and free ride, Just be prepared to force the shifter into neutral or be Fred Flintstone with the feet thru the floor for brakes!

I know I say the same thing every year about this time, but I hope to get all my business stuff cleared up one of these days so I can get the heck out of here for awhile.... This nostalgia racing is getting to look tempting, been doing some research on it....

For this summer, I'll be lucky to find enough time to escape long enough to make it down to Kansas to visit Rog and catch a NASCAR race....

I've been chasing a header solution for a couple of weeks now. Had two sets of aftermarkets in hand that both went back - one hit the frame and left no room for steering shaft (equal length FloTech's) and the Patriot's from Speedway built for the application did not fit my exhaust ports and I could not accept their method of sealing - where they build up the tube to flange weld on the back side, then grind that flat to form a narrow "donut" on each port but the "donut" was an ugly oval that extended above my machined surfaces. Decided to go with Lake Style's, and called Matt at Gear Drive in MN. After a measuring session, including making up a wooden mockup flange and stubs, we quickly learned that my splash aprons would have to be extensively cut down to clear the first three tubes on both sides with his 90* exit approach and my engine position in the frame. After a bit of talking Matt convinced me that the best solution was for me to assemble a "kit" and make my own lakers. With my Patriot experience I started chasing header flanges that fit my ports. Summit's search engine is great, but it led me to a choice of two flanges from Hedman, each with or without stubouts. A quick call to Hedman told me that one of them had splayed bolt holes on 3" centers instead of 2" stock bolt spacing. So I ordered a half dozen "J" tube bends and a set of bare flanges from Summit. Speedway had the megaphones at a 25% savings over anyone else, so they sent me those. The Summit packages came yesterday, and when I opened the box the header flange ports were a stock profile, 1.25 x 1.875, and they are stamped with a number that crosses to a complete header for a 351 Mustang. Hedman quickly confirmed that they are flanges for 1.75" primaries, not 1.625, and that their package was mis-labeled. The good thing is it is Summit - once we talked through the details they fall all over themselves to make it right, sending the UPS guy back to pick up the package today, and contacting Hedman to get a direct drop shipment to me from GA. Hopefully I will have the right flanges in a couple of days...
What I learned from this is that a SBF can have at least five different port/bolt configurations, stock profile (rectangle) 2" bolts, square port 2" spacing, square port 3" spacing (Dart II style), rounded port 2.44" diagonal bolts, and high port 2.75" bolts (Trick Flow for one). The site, Headers By Ed http://www.headersbyed.com/__ford.htm#Windsor, helped me get to the bottom of the flange problem, and then Hedman was a great help walking me through their part numbers.

Here's a couple of pic's of the mockup that I sent to Matt, showing the interference on the splash apron - was on the wrong computer to post attachments earlier...
These are 1.5" closet rod stubs, so a 1.625 tube would be a bit worse. The solution is to come out of the header flange with a 2.5" radius up (and back on the front port) to sweep over the apron, then follow the line of the head back with the megaphone, angled to parallel the cowl and end before the door. I'll have to trim back the 30" megaphone about four inches or so, giving me a nominal 3.5" exit instead of 4", which is fine for the CC baffle inserts in stock form. Works on paper...

Cars are fun right?
I went through simular issues when building my T. It is an 85 roller 302 block with 73 heads. I ordered Speedway lakes headers (which ended up being Patriot) and they are a pain to bolt up. (Had to oblong a few holes to get them to line up) I was not impressed with their quality either. Pops has Sanderson limefires on his 27 and they bolt right up with no issues at all. Small block Fords while common can be a nightmare (and dont get me started on water pump and pulleys) spent two weeks ordering water pumps and pulleys trying to make them line up correctly.Good luck!
Don Jr.

Yep these Fords can be very tricky! Had lots of fit issues with parts for my 460. You don't even want to discuss c-6 trannys and the different torque converter shaft sizes. But when all is done it's nice to have an engine where the distributor is easy to work on!
I agree with Don Jr. about the water pumps, pulleys and don't forget water goosenecks for the thermostat!!!!!

Well, the latest is that Hedman discontinued the flanges I need, and they simply substituted oblong ports for 1.75" tubes under the old part number. The tech guy at Hedman agreed this sucks big time, and said that if I ordered their flange with stubouts for 1.625" primaries they expand the stugs to 1.75 and use the bigger flanges. I'm back to looking for flanges again...

On the belt/pulley/water pump alignment that's why I opted for the Rocky Hinge package - they sort all of that out, and as long as you have a compatible front cover it all fits.

Does Sanderson headers make anything that will fit?

Originally Posted by rumrumm

Does Sanderson headers make anything that will fit?

Sanderson's inside the frame headers for SBF are all 1.5" primaries which chokes it down considerably. They told me that to go to a 1.625" tube they needed the car in their shop, which is not going to happen (they said this is their approach for any non-standard inside frame header). Sanderson advised they can do their Limefires (lakes style) in 1.625" primaries, but they come out of the ports at 90* which destroys my splash aprons.
I have a set of stock port 3/8" flanges coming from Stainless Headers Mfg in MN ($60 plus shipping), and I will cheat the tubes back 1/8" from the back, flow the weld in and port the flange width to ease the flow some. Should be OK.

have a problem with brake boster on 66 fairlane fastback,hitting vaulve covers,installing 427 side oiler do's anybody know what to do. tns59

I decided to get the bulkhead in place between the trunk and cockpit, and found that the only way to do it was in four pieces. I had determined that plywood was a good choice for me, given that the main function is to contain an explosion, and secondarily to extend the time to exit in case of fire. Here are a few shots of the bulkhead.

I put in the two upper sections, allowed them to dry and then put in the two lower sections.

Today I got into the header problem, and I'm pretty happy with my result, having never tackled headers before. I wasted one "J-tube" having to re-fab my back pipe once, but I can handle $15 for a replacement. Here are some shots of side one - the challenge now is to make side 2 match.... No comments on the "duct tape welds" on the megaphone - I have not cut the primary holes in the megaphones yet, so I cannot tack them into place yet...

Well, tonight was one of those "DOH" moments - the kind one probably should keep to themselves, but that might also help someone else through the "..what's going on???" moment. I got my passenger side header back first, bolted it on to see how it looked, then took it loose to close the door and mark the cut line for door clearance - a critical issue on suicide doors. The cut line is at 2" from the end, which is OK but quite a bit more than I expected having not measured it before. Tonight I get the drivers side back, bolt it on, same drill, and the cut line is at 1/2"!! WTF??

Now logic says that the passenger side on a SBF is the lead bank, and that head sits about an inch farther forward, so what's going on?? I should have plenty of clearance on the passenger side if I only need 1/2" on the driver's, right?? Well, after looking at it a while one realizes that the heads are interchangable side to side, so the pattern of exhaust/plug/exhaust/plug on the driver's side becomes plug/exhaust/plug/exhaust on the passenger front to back. The back primary on the driver's side is 2.75" from the cowl, while the same pipe on the passenger side is only 1.25", a difference of 1.5" even considering the lead cylinder difference! Now it all makes sense, but it makes it even more critical to consider the total offset side to side relative to the doors on outside pipes, unless they run low beneath the door line. Thought this one was going to make me crazy, and not sure it didn't....

Headlights - Lemons to Lemonade
I mentioned in another thread that I had managed to break one of my AutoLoc SnakeEye headlights. Recall I was looking for a lamp assembly that would give me H4 headlights, parking lamp and turn signal functions, and that Vintiques does have a set of inserts that provide that by putting a 3157 bulb into the main headlight bucket. (Thanks John Palmer for that lead!!) They are still a flat lens lamp rather than the OEM domed sealed beam. Here's what I ended up with instead.
(Note: I don't find a feature to place attachments inline, one by one, so they are lumped at the bottom. Also, due to the five file limit this message will be split into two parts.)
To start, this is the SnakeEye lamp, which had a crystal clear lens that shows the reflector and domed "snake eye" in the center. I was never overjoyed with the "modern look" of these, but I loved the idea of integrated turn signals and not having to add more junk to the front of the '33.
After looking at the lamp I went hunting for another socket for a 194A bulb, but was not having any luck finding anything but the OEM insert and twist type sockets, or a socket that could be glued in place leaving no access for future bulb changes. Since the light was trash at this point, my approach was to perhaps cut out the turn signal port and graft in a second tube, but I could not find that type of rubber socket anywhere. Speedway offers a neat little LED unit that can be added to an H4 headlight to provide a turn signal indicator, but their listing stated specifically that it would not work with their SnakeEye headlights.

I decided to sacrifice an old 201 sealed beam that I had pulled from my Jeep a few years back, to see if I could indeed remove the lens and possibly graft it onto the Snake Eye light, as described in the June 2010 Rod & Custom for a quad headlight installation. Using a new metal cutoff wheel in the angle grinder, safety glasses, gloves and dust mask I started a careful grind, moving around the lamp at the joint line. As stated in the article, after only about two or three minutes and 1/16" of grinding I was holding a sealed beam lens in hand!!

I sanded the mating edge smooth, put a slight chamfer on the plastic rim of the Snake Eye, and I now had a H4 light with turn signal section at the bottom, hidden behind a standard sealed beam! Looking at the SnakeEye without the lens I suddenly realized that the reason the Mr Roadster LED insert would not work with this light is simply due to the fact that the "snake eye" dome legs occupy the space required by the LED mounting ring so I ordered a set and had them in hand the next day (great Speedway delivery service!!).

(Continued....)

(Part 2)

That snake eye dome has no function other than looks, and behind a sealed beam lens it is not even going to be visible. I took it out, test fit the LED and Eureka!! it fit great!! Note the "dust" on the reflector which all be cleaned up before final assembly.

The little amber LED is direction sensitive, so it needs to be pointed parallel to the H4 bulb to hit the lens straight, and it is going to feel the direct heat of the H4 bulb but all of the wiring is back behind so I'm hoping it works OK - this is the intended use and installation orientation. The LED is not really bright, but in a dark shop it gives the headlight a sweet amber glow, and the turn signal lights up bright in its segregated section at the bottom. Here's the back side, showing the wiring.

And here's one finished unit, awaiting high temp silicone attachment after a thorough air blow and alcohol clean on the reflector and the inside of the lens, with the second one behind.

I really like the "traditional" sealed beam look, especially the domed lens of the original type lamps, and I really, really like having a three function lamp with the ability to easily service all three elements from the back. I may shop for a higher intensity LED for the parking lamp in the future, but for now I have something I like better than what I had, and it cost me $15.