Thread: Followed Me Home, '33 Build

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I know I say the same thing every year about this time, but I hope to get all my business stuff cleared up one of these days so I can get the heck out of here for awhile.... This nostalgia racing is getting to look tempting, been doing some research on it....

For this summer, I'll be lucky to find enough time to escape long enough to make it down to Kansas to visit Rog and catch a NASCAR race....

I've been chasing a header solution for a couple of weeks now. Had two sets of aftermarkets in hand that both went back - one hit the frame and left no room for steering shaft (equal length FloTech's) and the Patriot's from Speedway built for the application did not fit my exhaust ports and I could not accept their method of sealing - where they build up the tube to flange weld on the back side, then grind that flat to form a narrow "donut" on each port but the "donut" was an ugly oval that extended above my machined surfaces. Decided to go with Lake Style's, and called Matt at Gear Drive in MN. After a measuring session, including making up a wooden mockup flange and stubs, we quickly learned that my splash aprons would have to be extensively cut down to clear the first three tubes on both sides with his 90* exit approach and my engine position in the frame. After a bit of talking Matt convinced me that the best solution was for me to assemble a "kit" and make my own lakers. With my Patriot experience I started chasing header flanges that fit my ports. Summit's search engine is great, but it led me to a choice of two flanges from Hedman, each with or without stubouts. A quick call to Hedman told me that one of them had splayed bolt holes on 3" centers instead of 2" stock bolt spacing. So I ordered a half dozen "J" tube bends and a set of bare flanges from Summit. Speedway had the megaphones at a 25% savings over anyone else, so they sent me those. The Summit packages came yesterday, and when I opened the box the header flange ports were a stock profile, 1.25 x 1.875, and they are stamped with a number that crosses to a complete header for a 351 Mustang. Hedman quickly confirmed that they are flanges for 1.75" primaries, not 1.625, and that their package was mis-labeled. The good thing is it is Summit - once we talked through the details they fall all over themselves to make it right, sending the UPS guy back to pick up the package today, and contacting Hedman to get a direct drop shipment to me from GA. Hopefully I will have the right flanges in a couple of days...
What I learned from this is that a SBF can have at least five different port/bolt configurations, stock profile (rectangle) 2" bolts, square port 2" spacing, square port 3" spacing (Dart II style), rounded port 2.44" diagonal bolts, and high port 2.75" bolts (Trick Flow for one). The site, Headers By Ed http://www.headersbyed.com/__ford.htm#Windsor, helped me get to the bottom of the flange problem, and then Hedman was a great help walking me through their part numbers.

Here's a couple of pic's of the mockup that I sent to Matt, showing the interference on the splash apron - was on the wrong computer to post attachments earlier...
These are 1.5" closet rod stubs, so a 1.625 tube would be a bit worse. The solution is to come out of the header flange with a 2.5" radius up (and back on the front port) to sweep over the apron, then follow the line of the head back with the megaphone, angled to parallel the cowl and end before the door. I'll have to trim back the 30" megaphone about four inches or so, giving me a nominal 3.5" exit instead of 4", which is fine for the CC baffle inserts in stock form. Works on paper...

Cars are fun right?
I went through simular issues when building my T. It is an 85 roller 302 block with 73 heads. I ordered Speedway lakes headers (which ended up being Patriot) and they are a pain to bolt up. (Had to oblong a few holes to get them to line up) I was not impressed with their quality either. Pops has Sanderson limefires on his 27 and they bolt right up with no issues at all. Small block Fords while common can be a nightmare (and dont get me started on water pump and pulleys) spent two weeks ordering water pumps and pulleys trying to make them line up correctly.Good luck!
Don Jr.

Yep these Fords can be very tricky! Had lots of fit issues with parts for my 460. You don't even want to discuss c-6 trannys and the different torque converter shaft sizes. But when all is done it's nice to have an engine where the distributor is easy to work on!
I agree with Don Jr. about the water pumps, pulleys and don't forget water goosenecks for the thermostat!!!!!

Well, the latest is that Hedman discontinued the flanges I need, and they simply substituted oblong ports for 1.75" tubes under the old part number. The tech guy at Hedman agreed this sucks big time, and said that if I ordered their flange with stubouts for 1.625" primaries they expand the stugs to 1.75 and use the bigger flanges. I'm back to looking for flanges again...

On the belt/pulley/water pump alignment that's why I opted for the Rocky Hinge package - they sort all of that out, and as long as you have a compatible front cover it all fits.

have a problem with brake boster on 66 fairlane fastback,hitting vaulve covers,installing 427 side oiler do's anybody know what to do. tns59

I decided to get the bulkhead in place between the trunk and cockpit, and found that the only way to do it was in four pieces. I had determined that plywood was a good choice for me, given that the main function is to contain an explosion, and secondarily to extend the time to exit in case of fire. Here are a few shots of the bulkhead.

I put in the two upper sections, allowed them to dry and then put in the two lower sections.

Today I got into the header problem, and I'm pretty happy with my result, having never tackled headers before. I wasted one "J-tube" having to re-fab my back pipe once, but I can handle $15 for a replacement. Here are some shots of side one - the challenge now is to make side 2 match.... No comments on the "duct tape welds" on the megaphone - I have not cut the primary holes in the megaphones yet, so I cannot tack them into place yet...

Well, tonight was one of those "DOH" moments - the kind one probably should keep to themselves, but that might also help someone else through the "..what's going on???" moment. I got my passenger side header back first, bolted it on to see how it looked, then took it loose to close the door and mark the cut line for door clearance - a critical issue on suicide doors. The cut line is at 2" from the end, which is OK but quite a bit more than I expected having not measured it before. Tonight I get the drivers side back, bolt it on, same drill, and the cut line is at 1/2"!! WTF??

Now logic says that the passenger side on a SBF is the lead bank, and that head sits about an inch farther forward, so what's going on?? I should have plenty of clearance on the passenger side if I only need 1/2" on the driver's, right?? Well, after looking at it a while one realizes that the heads are interchangable side to side, so the pattern of exhaust/plug/exhaust/plug on the driver's side becomes plug/exhaust/plug/exhaust on the passenger front to back. The back primary on the driver's side is 2.75" from the cowl, while the same pipe on the passenger side is only 1.25", a difference of 1.5" even considering the lead cylinder difference! Now it all makes sense, but it makes it even more critical to consider the total offset side to side relative to the doors on outside pipes, unless they run low beneath the door line. Thought this one was going to make me crazy, and not sure it didn't....

Headlights - Lemons to Lemonade
I mentioned in another thread that I had managed to break one of my AutoLoc SnakeEye headlights. Recall I was looking for a lamp assembly that would give me H4 headlights, parking lamp and turn signal functions, and that Vintiques does have a set of inserts that provide that by putting a 3157 bulb into the main headlight bucket. (Thanks John Palmer for that lead!!) They are still a flat lens lamp rather than the OEM domed sealed beam. Here's what I ended up with instead.
(Note: I don't find a feature to place attachments inline, one by one, so they are lumped at the bottom. Also, due to the five file limit this message will be split into two parts.)
To start, this is the SnakeEye lamp, which had a crystal clear lens that shows the reflector and domed "snake eye" in the center. I was never overjoyed with the "modern look" of these, but I loved the idea of integrated turn signals and not having to add more junk to the front of the '33.
After looking at the lamp I went hunting for another socket for a 194A bulb, but was not having any luck finding anything but the OEM insert and twist type sockets, or a socket that could be glued in place leaving no access for future bulb changes. Since the light was trash at this point, my approach was to perhaps cut out the turn signal port and graft in a second tube, but I could not find that type of rubber socket anywhere. Speedway offers a neat little LED unit that can be added to an H4 headlight to provide a turn signal indicator, but their listing stated specifically that it would not work with their SnakeEye headlights.

I decided to sacrifice an old 201 sealed beam that I had pulled from my Jeep a few years back, to see if I could indeed remove the lens and possibly graft it onto the Snake Eye light, as described in the June 2010 Rod & Custom for a quad headlight installation. Using a new metal cutoff wheel in the angle grinder, safety glasses, gloves and dust mask I started a careful grind, moving around the lamp at the joint line. As stated in the article, after only about two or three minutes and 1/16" of grinding I was holding a sealed beam lens in hand!!

I sanded the mating edge smooth, put a slight chamfer on the plastic rim of the Snake Eye, and I now had a H4 light with turn signal section at the bottom, hidden behind a standard sealed beam! Looking at the SnakeEye without the lens I suddenly realized that the reason the Mr Roadster LED insert would not work with this light is simply due to the fact that the "snake eye" dome legs occupy the space required by the LED mounting ring so I ordered a set and had them in hand the next day (great Speedway delivery service!!).

(Continued....)

Roger,

Buon pomeriggio da Napoli!

Looking good. What you have had to do is a good illustration of why the hair stands up on the backs of our necks when someone says "is that a kit car?" Like all we have to do is bolt the parts together.

Did Kansas ever pass the streetrod law? How about the requirement for saving receipts for everything down to the last nut and bolt? Are you going to end up with a big auto tax bill every year? (I might mention that I've had my '34 titled in VA for three years, and have never received a tax bill. )

Not that I'm coming back to Kansas, but I'm still curious.

Ciao,

Jack

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Roger,

Buon pomeriggio da Napoli!

Looking good. What you have had to do is a good illustration of why the hair stands up on the backs of our necks when someone says "is that a kit car?" Like all we have to do is bolt the parts together.

Did Kansas ever pass the streetrod law? How about the requirement for saving receipts for everything down to the last nut and bolt? Are you going to end up with a big auto tax bill every year? (I might mention that I've had my '34 titled in VA for three years, and have never received a tax bill. )

Not that I'm coming back to Kansas, but I'm still curious.

Ciao,

Jack

Jack,
It is great to see your name/avatar pop up here. I hope that your time in Italy (my mistake on Spain earlier) is everything you want it to be, and more!

Even though I started with a "roller package" where all of the major assembly work on the chassis was already done for me, I agree that the term "kit car" causes an emotion spike anytime I hear it My headlight adventure is nothing special, but it gives me a bit of pleasure to keep a look I wanted while gaining a functional feature.

The streetrod legislation in Kansas (SEMA laws) is a particular frustration for me. After the bill was allowed to die in a House transportation committee in the 2008 session I contacted the Representative that authored the bill (she and her husband have a street rod). From public record, the bill did not clear committee due to a letter from the Dept of Budget stating that it would require XX number of programming hours to rework the vehicle registration data base to recognize the new classifications of "street rod" and "custom car", and that the dollars to pay those expenses (less than $50k as I recall) had not been included in the budget for 2008. I was told that she had been assured that one of the junior members of the Transportation Committee would sponsor the bill for 2009 and push it through. About two months ago I went into the House of Representatives records and searched for the Bill by name and old number and found nothing. Long story short, with the health care and budget crises they "forgot" to introduce the SEMA legislation, and it is no longer possible to address it in this session. The Representative who authored the original bill asked me to "...send reminders to her, and to the junior representative who agreed to sponsor the bill in committee.." in mid-December this year to ensure that it was not forgotten again. I will do that, and I guess I understand that they have bigger fish to fry, but it is frustrating to have them not follow through with something, especially when it is seen as a process simplification.

For now we are playing under the same old rules - keep every receipt for things purchased for the car, including raw materials like bar stock and sheet metal, supposedly to prove that nothing is stolen property. I'm not sure about the annual property tax situation but will hopefully know in a couple of months.

Take care and enjoy the journey. When you get back maybe you can schedule a road trip to Kansas to visit old stomping grounds.

I know that there are at least two others that frequent this forum that are at similar points in their builds and have expressed interest in the way I tackle some of the things that are old hat to many of you, so I’m going to bore most of you with how I got the body off of the chassis single handed. Pictures follow at the end since there is no way to put them in line as I go. I used a Harbor Freight 2T picker with the boom extended out to the ½ T limit, still more than twice the capacity of the lift.
I had talked at length to Duane Noblett of N&N about how to lift the body, and following his advice I extended a single 2x6 front to back through the windshield/back window openings. I asked him specifically about any need to notch across the board to keep from putting load on the flat rim where the windshield glues in and adding a second 2x6 underneath to account for the relief cut, but it is a 1/8” thick lip and Duane said he had always just put a towel between them and had never had any problem. I decided on a five foot long board to provide some extension front & back hoping to minimize the strap to body rub a little, but there too a few layers of old sweat shirt material eliminated any friction. Rather than loop my strap and hook it around the two ends of the 2x6 (double strap through the hook, looped to each end) I decided to run the strap through the body and around the ends of my 2x6, since my strap had a safety factor of more than twenty for my nominal 500# lift. This allowed me to ratchet down the strap and keep my picker hook close to the roof, helping to eliminate concern with running out of picker lift capacity. I also put a little notch top and bottom on the ends of my board to take away any concern of the straps slipping off center. I marked my center point on the window openings for balance, put in several layers of T-shirt material as padding, tied the brake & clutch pedals all the way down clearing the firewall, removed the RR wheel so I did not have to lift over it and did a slow lift to check balance. I had the hook centered on the roof and it was quite back heavy. For mine, minus doors and trunk lid, the balance point was with the hook right at the rear edge of the door opening and I was able to move the hook very easily with the strap looped end to end. Small adjustments were by moving the whole board/strap. I only had to lift about ten inches to be well clear of the frame, pulled it back, rolled the stand underneath and slowly dropped it in place. After setting it on the simple frame I decided to add a bit more width to the frame at the mid-point, just to get the load out closer to the edge of the floor. Here are a few pictures of the process, which will likely be much easier to understand than my words.

Here are a few more, due to the five shot limit