Thread: 57 Chevy Cruizer

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Originally Posted by NTFDAY

I know, I know, I fixed it, must have been a senior moment.

Aw c'mon Ken! I knew I should have quoted your post as evidence!! Now mine makes no sense! Goodland?? Who said anything about Goodland?

Originally Posted by rspears

Aw c'mon Ken! I knew I should have quoted your post as evidence!! Now mine makes no sense! Goodland?? Who said anything about Goodland?

Think I bought fuel there once on the way to a Divisional event at Bandimere!!!!!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Ok, back to the plans for the car itself... I was going to run a T-56, but after Pro Z's warning on the poor shifting characteristics and a salesman buddy of mine letting me take one out and test hammer (err, test drive!) a car with a T-56 in it I've decided to go a different route on the drive train. After some conversation's and emails with Richmond Gear and Gear Vendor's Overdrive, I'm considering using the Richmond 5 speed with the road racing synchro's and other parts along with a Gear Vendor's overdrive unit bolted on the back of it where the tailshaft housing usually goes. Talking with guys who run or have run on the salt I know it's slippery, so it would seem that some very close ratio's in the transmission along with a very close eye on the tachometer one should be able to get through the gears smoothly and keep the engine in a torque range that will accelerate smoothly without a lot of "peakiness" in the torque curve. So, with the Gear Vendors unit adding an in-between gear to each of the 5 gears the Richmond has I think I've come up with some satisfactory ratio's... For clarity, I'll show the gear ratio in the tranny, then what the gear ratio becomes when you hit the button and go to overdrive;

1st- 2.89:1
od- 2.26:1
2nd-1.85:1
od- 1.45:1
3rd-1.31:1
od- 1.03:1
4th- 1.00:1
od- .81:1
5th- .77:1

I can't imagine where you would use every gear while upshifting, but some practice with which gear or overdrive version of it to use would give some very smooth and constant acceleration!!! This set up I believe would also allow for a lot of choices in rear end ratio based on what kind of driving you're planning on doing!! Heck, if 5 gears are fun then 9 has to be almost twice as much fun, right??????

PS---Just for grins, some Saturday night around town I'd have to dig out my old set of 6.00:1 on a spool gears and see just how many times I can shift getting across the intersection!!!!!!!!

Dave-I would think by the time you bolt everything together,you would have spent the same amount of money as buying a ST1200 Lenco. The Gear Vendor stuff is $$$ expensive.I did look in that direction for my RV and decided by the time I got back the gas I saved,I would have sold the RV long before that.

LENCO ST1200 Street/Strip transmission

Here is a interesting post on Yellow Bullet compering both the Liberty and Lenco. Seems the nice point about the Lenco is you can adjust the shift pressures so you if you have a slippery track,you can soften it up some.

Lenco ST1200 vs Liberty Transmissions - Yellow Bullet Forums

Well that and a number of gear ratio's you have to choose from:

http://www.lencoracing.com/HowaLENCO...IOSmaster.html

Originally Posted by 1gary

Dave-I would think by the time you bolt everything together,you would have spent the same amount of money as buying a ST1200 Lenco. The Gear Vendor stuff is $$$ expensive.I did look in that direction for my RV and decided by the time I got back the gas I saved,I would have sold the RV long before that.

LENCO ST1200 Street/Strip transmission

Here is a interesting post on Yellow Bullet compering both the Liberty and Lenco. Seems the nice point about the Lenco is you can adjust the shift pressures so you if you have a slippery track,you can soften it up some.

Lenco ST1200 vs Liberty Transmissions - Yellow Bullet Forums

If all I wanted was 5 gears to go drag racing with, I'd just put my trusty old Doug Nash in and be done with it........

Dave-all I am saying is just read the links,give it a chance,then think it over.

I've thought all of this over for quite some time.... A Lenco is worthless on the street, a Liberty is fine if that's what you want.. It doesn't suit my purpose. What I want is a transmission with road race quality gearing and synchro's, 5 forward gears, and easily adaptable to the Gear Vendors overdrive unit.... Liberty makes an excellent 4 speed for road racing, and 4 and 5 speeds for drag racing but it's not what I want. The Richmond still has gears that don't howl so much they drive you out of the car, and strong enough for the horsepower I'll be running....

You've totally missed the point of the overdrive unit.....with the push of a button I can add 22% overdrive to any of the first four forward gears... Very nice versatility when coming out of a corner when it's a bit too slow for the next gear while at the same time a bit too high for the current gear.....

This will be a multi-use car, single purpose built parts won't work.....

I really see Dave's point on this one. I've had some experience with the GV units, and they really add versatility to the transmission they are attached to, along with being a very reliable unit.

As far as the cost, it’s all a matter of perspective I guess. Dave is building an over the top car to be able to do a lot of different things well. The GV cuts down the compromises that a lot of us build into a drive train based on using single purpose parts.

Thanks Mike! I've never been one to buy something because of the price if it's not going to perform the way I want it to perform! What is it Uncle Bob used to say about the thrill of a good deal being forgotten long after the quality or usefulness of a product is poor???? Having been around the GV units, I'm sure you'll appreciate just how useful that switch to a ratio half a gear higher can be!!!!! Keeping an engine in it's ideal RPM range is nice, too, along with just plain old torque multiplication that all these different ratio's can do!!!!!

The big thing to remember about planetary gear o-d are that it freewheels on decel and that might not be what you want in a road racing enviroment------not only does it freewheel in those od gears, but that F's up your braking effort as in order to get enough rear brakes for in od, you will have lock up tendancy of the rears when in any hard gear----------

Sooooooooooooo------------------not only do u have to remember the order of gears going up and down, you have to remember the braking scenario---------and most time gains on a road course are from the braking/turn in areas of the curves, not the exits to the straights

Dave I totally agree on buying what you need. I bought the Howards crank when everyone told me it was way more than what the end use was going to be for. But it was the comfort zone that I wanted.

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

The big thing to remember about planetary gear o-d are that it freewheels on decel and that might not be what you want in a road racing enviroment------not only does it freewheel in those od gears, but that F's up your braking effort as in order to get enough rear brakes for in od, you will have lock up tendancy of the rears when in any hard gear----------

Sooooooooooooo------------------not only do u have to remember the order of gears going up and down, you have to remember the braking scenario---------and most time gains on a road course are from the braking/turn in areas of the curves, not the exits to the straights

Very true, Jerry. Corner entry has to be done in a straight gear and not overdrive. We played with one of these many years back on a road course, you only enter a corner once in OD and it goes right to the top of your "things not to do" list!!! So, corner entry speeds and braking become the same as any non-od car... From just prior to the apex and out, the closer split on the ratio with the od gear being selected, ie 3rd to 3rd od accelerates the car quicker. Getting out of the turn harder will get you to the next turn sooner!!!!

Same thing in a drag car with a glide and a Gear Vendors. Set one up for a friend a number of years back, instantly took time off his 60', was able to get deeper in the rear gears and therefore a harder launch and with the od on drive still maintained the same rpm on the top end....

Hello Ken Thrum----are you going to NHRA reunion at Bakersfield next month???????????

Dave, a buddy of mine special ordered a 199 Suburban with a stick shift and then put the gear vendors unit behind it. It was one slick piece and he loved it; used it to haul a big camper.

Originally Posted by falconvan

Dave, a buddy of mine special ordered a 199 Suburban with a stick shift and then put the gear vendors unit behind it. It was one slick piece and he loved it; used it to haul a big camper.

Everybody that has one or had one love's them, that's for sure!!!! I was going to put one on my toter, then I sold it. When I get another one the GV will be the first option I get for it!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Very true, Jerry. Corner entry has to be done in a straight gear and not overdrive. We played with one of these many years back on a road course, you only enter a corner once in OD and it goes right to the top of your "things not to do" list!!! So, corner entry speeds and braking become the same as any non-od car... From just prior to the apex and out, the closer split on the ratio with the od gear being selected, ie 3rd to 3rd od accelerates the car quicker. Getting out of the turn harder will get you to the next turn sooner!!!!

I think I'd have to run a parallel circuit on that OD pushbutton to light an indicator lamp in a prominent place on my dash when that Gearvendors unit was engaged! I can just see myself exiting a corner tangent to the apex, with an "Oh yeah, I was in OD coming in...."

Dave, I know you've thought this thing through with some one-on-one bench racing sessions on the side and the decision is pretty much made at this point. I want to thank you for educating me on the Gearvendors unit. I had overlooked articles on them, like the one from David Freiburger singing their praises in Hot Rod (on Gearvendors web site). I'm thinking that I could have a blast with one of those and a traditional 4-speed in a cruising machine. I dearly love running the gears, and the unit's strong! I'll look forward to more insights into the powertrain you're building! Thanks!!