Thread: Project: 27 T bucket

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So I got this rolling chassis 27 fiberglass T bucket project that I think should be an okay project. I have a lot to figure out and a lot of ideas to find and put to use. I have a 307 Chevy motor that came with the car that I was going to use, but with the custom radiator shell that is already made to fit there is not much room for it. I am probably going to go with a 4.3 gm v6, because it will be a little shorter and I dont need a built up motor for this little bucket. with the 307 pushed all the way back to the fire wall the end of the water pump which is a long pump is pretty much touching the radiator. the v6 only gives me another 3-4 inches to work with, so I might be able to find an electric fan to fit in there. as for a transmission I have a 4l60e, but no computer to run it. I might be getting a th350, but I dont know as far as chev trans. th350, th400, 7004r, 4l60e what trans it the best one to use? I am doing this build on the cheap and can find good trans. on craigslist for $100-$200 all day, so I just need to figure out what trans. I want. the car came with a 9'' housing mounted in there that is 55'' backing plate to plate, but I need axles and the 3rd member, but I dont know what the rear was used in to find the right axle lengths. I also have a complete s10 rear end that is supposed to have a 307 ratio and might be getting another s10 rear that was set up for a 5spd. manual, so it is probably around 3.73 or something. the front end is a 4 or 6'' drop tube axle with early chevy car spindles I think. it has hubs and the wheels are mounted, but there is no brakes or anything up there, so I would like to find a disc brake set up for that. I dont know if I can just put rotors on the hubs or I need to get a kit. I was think of getting a speedway early chevy caliper kit, but I think it is stupid that the spindles have to be turned. I mean if you make a kit make it to fit on a stock chevy spindle not a modified spindle. anyways I got it into the garage and started setting stuff in place for a mock up and that is where I am at got picture of what is looked like when i got it and some of the front hubs to see if anyone know anything about them.

i guess it was a little frosty when I took the pics. I will get pics. of the mock up later. any info comments or what ever is much appreciated. I would like to put some kind of a roll cage on it, but haven figured it out yet. I would like it to be on the out side like a really simple exo cage, but cant figure out how to make it look good.

You've got some good stuff there to start with, but you should know, that is not a 27 body, it is a 23. From what I can see in the pictures, the frame looks ok, as does the front axle and radius rods. Not sure about the rear, can't see much. I would lose that rack and pinion steering, it will bump steer like mad the way it is mounted. Put in a traditional reversed Corvair box and you will be much happier, believe me. Driving a T bucket with an r and p mounted like that is white knuckle time for the entire trip.

Pull the body off and shoot us some good pictures of the rear and stuff like that so we can give you a better idea of what you have and what might need changed to make it safe and roadworthy.

As for the reason the Chevy spindles need turned, it is because there are no bearings available that would take it from the current size to any available discs. They have been doing it this way for decades. It is almost as cheap to buy new Chevy type spindles from Speedway, that is what we did on my Son Don's T bucket.

IMO, forget that cage idea. It will look goofy.

Don

Some years ago whe we built my `33 we used 49 to 54 chevy spindles, used a 3/8 spacer ring on the inside of the splindle, ford inner bearing and race with the stock outer bearing and race, used `78 olds cutlass caliphers and brackets were built. Its a lot easier to buy it all as a kit as Don said. might go look at what Chassis Engineering has to offer....

Itoldyouso why do you think it is a 23 and not a 27. it was sold to me as a 27, but dont have a title or any names of who made it. the r&p actually hits the bottom of the top link, so it doesn't turn all the way. I was thinking once I get the motor and trans whieght in there it might clear it and turn lock to lock. is there any better way to set up this r&p? I know what causes bump steer on 4x4's, but cant see it in this application.

Here are two pictures to show you the difference. The first one is my Sons 23, and the second is my current 27. Look at the cowl area and general shape of the body. What you have there is the typical 23-25 T bucket body, but everyone just calls them a 23.

Don

As for the r and p mounted to the frame, it can't work right because as the car goes over bumps the ends of the rack are pushed from side to side and steer the car without you turning the wheel. A buddy of mine had a T bucket done that way and I drove it home from a show one time for him.. It was the scariest ride I have ever had, the car was darting side to side and I had to keep correcting it to keep it from changing lanes. The only way r and p has a chance of working right is if it it mounted directly to the straight axle itself, so the two move up and down together. But even that is not perfect as you add a lot of unsprung weight to the car and need to figure out a sliding input shaft setup.

IMO, it is so much easier to just not reinvent the wheel and use a reversed Corvair box like 99.0% of the other T buckets are using.

Don

Here, I found a picture that might even be more clear showing the differences between 23 and 27 bodies. The 23 is on top, the 27 underneath.

that top body on the last pictures is probably exactly what I have. I even have the pick up box just like that. I do have a fj55 land cruiser steering box that mounts on top of the frame with pitman arm running vertical.

Sounds like that box would be a good choice. I can't stress enough that a hot rod that is hard to handle takes the fun out of driving it real quick. Steering and handling in one of these T bucket type cars is the biggest challenge a person faces when building one.

You are doing good, you are asking smart questions and willing to accept suggestions, That is the way to do it, and how we all learn. Yep, the 23 is todally different from the 27 body and easy to ID from the cowl and the way the body sweeps up in back. No question what yours is.

Oh, call Speedway Motors and get a catalog, it will become your bible for this stuff and lots of tips in there for building one correctly.

Don

here some some mock up pics. as it sits now. how much room do I need from the oil pan to the ground? the 9'' rear has 18 splined axles that dont fit right and I dont have a 3rd member. as you can see the dissy is hitting the fire wall and the radiator is resting on the water pump. the 4.3 v6 is about 3-4'' shorter, so it should just fit. I might need to find two small 6-8'' electric fans to sit next to the water pump on each side. I also got a pic of the fj55 steering box, but I dont know how it would work. there is not much room there in front of the fire wall to set a steering box. and still get the column shaft to come out the fire wall. does anyone have any pictures of steering setups on T's? the grill that came with it is a homemade set up it looks like. made out of 1/4'' steel, but it looks nice and is sturdy.

Not to self promote a thread I did, you might want to take a look at this:

http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23618

You are going to have to sift through a lot of BS and pets, but there might be some helpful info in there for you. I warn you now, it is loooooooooong, like 200+ pages and stretched out over a year and a half, so get a pot of coffee and prop your feet up. It is about a 23 I built from scratch and is very similar to what you are doing.

Don

I started reading this thread when I first signed up on the forum. I think I read to about page 26 or something. it takes a long time to do read that much. I haven't gotten back to reading the rest though. I did like your son's 4door sedan. I have always wanted a 4door like that on bags chopped long and low, but I want old school commercial truck tires on mine. I dont know if I would of made a pick up out of it, but it still looks good.

I guess I forget to post a pic of the steering box

Yeah, it takes a while to get through that thread. There was a lot of non car stuff and friendly chain pulling, but it was the most fun I have ever had building a car. The people on here made it a terrific experience.

Check the operation of that steering box. It may operate backwards of how you need it to move. I can't tell from the photo how the draglink terminates, so I don't know which direction it would steer if put in the standard, behind the axle, location.

Don

good though I didnt even consider the direction of the box. so what does a when you say reversed corvair box what exactly does that mean and what is a fair price for one?

the frame must of had some kind of motor mounts and skid plate mounts welded on to the frame then torched off, so I ground everything down smooth. i also cut out my triangular engine mount plates with the plasma, drilled the 3 holes and ground it down smooth with the table sander. pics. later