New build thread; time to build one from scratch!

[falconvan]

Here's an idea I've been tossing around for several years: build a scratch built rear engined topless two seater using the front drive drivetrain from a higher performance production front drive sedan like a Northstar Caddy, 4.6 DOHC Lincoln Continental, 3.8 supercharged Bonneville SSEI, or a Taurus SHO. The whole drivetrain will be mounted in the rear, front suspension will most likely be a boneyard Jag XJ-6, chassis will be a home built tube chassis with a homebuilt body as well. I've kept my eye open for an inexpensive donor car for the last year or so and found a great deal on this decent running 93 Taurus SHO with a rebuilt trans, trashed interior, and crunched in the rear for $275 so I pulled the trigger. The guy bought it to fix up and it sat for two years. He sold his house so he let it go cheap just to get it out of the way.

I have no idea if I can really pull this off but what the heck; Im giving it a shot. Lots of research to do before I start actually building but I figured picking up the first piece was a good start.

[Hot Rod Nick]

Sounds like an interesting idea not to mention unique. I'll definitely stay tuned and follow your build. Good luck!

[randyr]

A buddy of mine used to have a Taurus SHO just like that....it would scoot pretty good!!
Interesting idea. Will be fun to see what you come up with.

[Dieselholic92]

Can't wait to see you start on it!

[Dave Severson]

Sounds like a good plan to me, Falcon!!!!! In a light car, the SHO should work just fine!

[falconvan]

That's what im thinking, Dave. There's lots of guys making decent power with these cars; they put up pretty good numbers even in stock form. First order of business is strip it down to the skeleton and sell off all the uneeded stuff.

[rspears]

Nothing wrong with that concept. Like you said, the key is going to be to get the base design set. Are you thinking a modern "What IS that??" look, or an older track roadster, custom coach builder "What IS that??" approach??

[34_40]

Interesting concept. I can't wait to see the direction of this build. With all the mopar builds you've got going.. I'd say you're making the most of productivity!!! ROFL..

[falconvan]

Nothing wrong with that concept. Like you said, the key is going to be to get the base design set. Are you thinking a modern "What IS that??" look, or an older track roadster, custom coach builder "What IS that??" approach??

Body design is still up in the air; I've been looking at chassis types for now. Body will have to be a somewhat simple rounded off design. My sheetmetal forming skills are in thier infancy so I dont want to go too difficult and get discouraged. Maybe a basic 3x2 square tube chassis for the base, use small tubing to form the shape, and then form the metal over the skeleton? I'd like it to be low to the ground with an open cabin that you can just climb into.

[rspears]

Body design is still up in the air; I've been looking at chassis types for now. Body will have to be a somewhat simple rounded off design. My sheetmetal forming skills are in thier infancy so I dont want to go too difficult and get discouraged. Maybe a basic 3x2 square tube chassis for the base, use small tubing to form the shape, and then form the metal over the skeleton? I'd like it to be low to the ground with an open cabin that you can just climb into.

Falcon,
Not trying to influence your design in any way, but there's a guy not far from me who's been retired for about thirty years and he builds one, and sometimes two cars per year. He's at least 85 now, still in the shop every day. Last time I was over there he was working on a 20's/30's "sportser" two seater design. He does all of his metal forming by hand - no break, no shear, no slip roll, and no, not even an English Wheel!! . His approach is that he doesn't want to mess with anything that Henry's guys didn't have in their shops up through the early to mid-30's (pre-'35), so he works only with hand tools. His "break" is the edge of a table, a piece of angle iron and a handful of "C" clamps. His "Sportster" has a square tube base, and then all of the curved sections are done in EMT conduit welded together. He then cuts his panels and forms over the conduit, easing the metal into shape. Here's a couple of pictures:

The Sportster base, work in progress - you can see the conduit forming the roll over the seat back, and the boat tail rear.
Dean1.JPG

An earlier two seater in his lineup:
Dean2.JPG

[falconvan]

Thanks, Roger. Thats the approach i was thinking. Nice looking work!

[techinspector1]

Beginning with a "clean sheet of paper" build like this, you have the option of placing components anywhere you want to. One of the things I would want would be a rear-mounted cooling system. It would make little sense to me to make the thing more complex, with a radiator up front and plumbing it, then tolerating the heat in your face. I'd leave plenty of room between the powertrain and the cabin to fab up a radiator and cooling fan(s) arrangement, ducting air in from the top and/or sides and exiting underneath.

I remember years ago when Bill Thomas was racing Corvairs, they removed the sheet metal from under the motor to get rid of all the weight they could. What they found was that the motor overheated from air stagnating up between the cylinders. What happened was that air from underneath the car was creating a high pressure area under the car that was fighting the cooling fan. The fan could not push the air down between the cylinders because of the resistance from air pressure under the car. They replaced the sheet metal, eliminating the high pressure being pushed up into the cylinders from underneath and the car ran normally again. Since I suggested exiting the cooling air underneath the car, I wanted to make sure that you understand to make a completely enclosed sheet metal duct for the air to escape through and out the back of the car, without being stagnated by undercar air.

[falconvan]

Thanks, Tech. And Happy B-day a little late, too. I was looking at some stuff built by Sterling and I think it was set up that way; front mounted radiator and rear mounted engine. Side scoops would be a definite plus. I've been looking at the old So-Cal streamliner and tought about something vaguely on those lines as far as boby shape. Something fairly rounded except use a two seat cabin and open wheelwells. So like a basic 3x2 chassis, use small tubing to form the body shape and skin it with sheetmetal.

I got the SHO moved into the garage and an ad put on CL to start selling off body parts, glass, etc. I want to get it down to just a shell with the drivetrain and wiring.

[The Bat]

Love the ideas, is this going to be a street driver or ? race speed air is not the same as street speed air.
If street=but just from having done rear rads a few times in the passed,there very hard to get to work,real good air flow is the big prob,both in and out,it's a ton EZer to put it up front of front wheels or very close for flow,also water flow needs to be set up with bleed points at all high points if rear motor with front rad,but that much EZer to deel with the poor air flow at rear. No matter how well scoops are made,air flow passed the front wheels gets bad and just dose not flow into scoops like you would think should happen,so bigger and bigger rads are often seen on rear rad designs or in some cases moved to front.
Mostly if a rear rad was designed to start with,few builders will admit a screw up after the fact,I see that a lot in hotrods they built to look like drag cars but tryed to drive on the street and over heat,so insted of fixing it,they sell it off or only take short trips.
Being now 70 my self,I played this game,and just pass along some info for your better planing.

[falconvan]

Love the ideas, is this going to be a street driver or ? race speed air is not the same as street speed air.
If street=but just from having done rear rads a few times in the passed,there very hard to get to work,real good air flow is the big prob,both in and out,it's a ton EZer to put it up front of front wheels or very close for flow,also water flow needs to be set up with bleed points at all high points if rear motor with front rad,but that much EZer to deel with the poor air flow at rear. No matter how well scoops are made,air flow passed the front wheels gets bad and just dose not flow into scoops like you would think should happen,so bigger and bigger rads are often seen on rear rad designs or in some cases moved to front.
Mostly if a rear rad was designed to start with,few builders will admit a screw up after the fact,I see that a lot in hotrods they built to look like drag cars but tryed to drive on the street and over heat,so insted of fixing it,they sell it off or only take short trips.
Being now 70 my self,I played this game,and just pass along some info for your better planing.

It's going to be a street car and Im leaning toward a front mounted radiator with air ducted into it and some type of side scoops to move air across the engine. I appreciate any and all advice; this is virgin territory for me. On the transaxle im wondering about how to make the wheels stationary rather than steerable like they were on the front. I was looking at the Jag IRS and wondering if a setup like that would work where you would have a hybrid shaft that uses a CV joint on the transaxle end and a Ujoint on the wheel end and a coil over shock rather than the strut. Lots to consider.....

Apparantly the whole idea of moving the front drive SHO motor to the rear is being done by others as well; these guys look like they are having fun with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLWcR7lm9cY