Thread: 57 Plymouth

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I wish I could have afforded something like this in the 60's. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carter-Carb...53.m1438.l2649

They are sure nice to have Ken. I bought my original one (like the ones shown) back around 1971 and then bought one of the "newer" ones about 15 years ago. I've actually got more pieces in the kits than they originally started with, Whenever I parted out an AFB/AVS (some of which I'd sure try to save today) I always kept the jets, rods and springs. Several years ago a friend of mine bought out the parts department of a closed Chrysler dealer and gave me all the rods and jets that were in the inventory.

The biggest problem I have any more is reading the numbers on the jets.....a bright light, my reading glasses AND a magnifying glass usually gets me by on that........or I guess I could just hand them to Cade to read . The step rods aren't too bad I just use my calipers on those.

The biggest thing I seem to go thru are the step up springs. The factory calibration on the Edelbrocks doesn't seem to like the 4500 ft altitude here too much. Fortunately the spring kits are readily available and not too bad on price so I just ordered a couple of those kits.


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Nice catch on that Hemi Mike. That definitely would be a kick in the pants and sort of explains why the price is lower.

Now, back to the Fitech dual quads set up. I got my latest speedway catalog today. I'm having a really hard time justifying the $1795 for regular dual quad or the $1995 for the power adder dual quad. In the speedway catalog, I can get holley sniper efi as a complete kit with fuel lines, pre fuel filter, post filter, fittings, and a pump for $1250. I'd still have to get a new single 4bbl manifold, but after the sale of the dual quad stuff, I might not be setting too bad. I'm seriously thinking about listing my dual quad set up for sale.

I could put fuel injection and air conditioning on the car for the price of the fitech dual quads. So I really have to decide how "cool" would the dual quads be anyway? I won't be gaining any performance per say right now. The holley sniper 4 injector kit is good to 650hp. That's a good 200hp more of where this engine will be for a couple years at least.

I hear you Ryan. If you don't mind an old man's ramblings:

Cool factor is in the eye of the beholder and adapting any kind of FI to a first Gen Hemi is cool (not as cool as a Hilborn with a set of calliope stacks, but cool none the less ). At this point where there will really be no performance gain, you would still have the advantages of a fuel injection system. Nobodys going to know what's under the hood when you are going down the road anyway.

In my mind the "cool factor" when you open the hood will be due in large part to what air cleaner you use to complement the big valve covers.

JMO, but I think I'd revisit the bat wing air cleaner....to me a FI unit sandwiched between a vintage style air cleaner on an early Hemi would be great and blend well with the theme of the outside of the car.


Another air cleaner that to me looks good on an early Hemi, regardless of the fuel mixer underneath is the Mopar 6 Pack air cleaner.

C 37 by M Patterson, on Flickr

You used to be able to buy the aftermarket chrome lids for about $70, but I couldn't find any when I just looked and the painted ones are going in the $100 range now. The air filter is about $75, and most people make there own base out of a sheet of metal.

No matter what you do DO NOT slap a big blob of plastic over it that has 5.7 HEMI embossed on it no matter how tempting it is.......you will lose ALL you're cool factor points.




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Part of me wants to just keep going the way it is and keep it simple. I just have a hard time making decisions. Too many options and its hard for me to keep on track. That air cleaner you have there is sweet. I didn't even think of that one but I could probably like it better than the bat wing unit. I can always hang it on the wall.

I wonder if the 6 pack one would work better for me since my carb studs are further apart compared to a 426 2x4 lid?

The 6 Pack air cleaners are simple to adapt to a dual quad set up. Like I said I built my own base. Use the lid as a template and trace the shape on a piece of sheet metal (I used aluminum to save weight). Figure out where the air cleaner sits and looks and looks best (the holes in the lid are not centered so one end will stick out a little further than the other. Once you're happy with it, mark and cut out the openings for the carb throats. You will probably want/need spacers to get the base up just a little bit from the carbs and the commercial ones are readily available and cheap in either plastic or metal.

It doesn't really matter if both, one or neither of the holes in the lid match up to where the hold down studs from the carburetor (within reason). If needed an S curve can be bent into the carb studs to make them match the holes in the lid.

This was just mock up. I actually moved the air cleaner back a little so the rear carb stud went the air cleaner lid and used the S Shaped stud in the front carb.

Dual quads by M Patterson, on Flickr

By the way IMO the black valve covers and air cleaner also look really good on an early hemi. I did this set in black winkle paint which looked really good when it was clean......the problem was keeping wrinkle paint clean is a huge PIA. If I were to actually use a set of black covers and air cleaner I'd do them in semi gloss black.

I don't have any pictures of the dual quad base I made but I do have a couple of the base I made/have for the 6X2 setup. Making sure SIX holes are properly aligned was a lot of fun.


6X2 T by M Patterson, on Flickr


I had to use spacers to get the lid up a bit to clear the top of the carbs and had to attach them to the base. It's not a problem you will have with commercial spacers which should just sandwich between the carbs and air cleaner base. As the base was aluminum and the spacers steel I ended up riveting them to the base with simple L brackets. I also made brackets to catch the carb studs in the 4 outer carbs to secure the base to the carburetors. To give it a finished look I used a piece of the flexible door edge guard around the edge of the base.

6X2 T by M Patterson, on Flickr


That big old air cleaner is a good way to hide just how many carbs I'm running on the Dodge which is why I decided to go with the 6 small air cleaners..........So the 6 pack air cleaner for the Drag Star was sure of bunch of work for more garage art


GA by M Patterson, on Flickr


That being said it does look nice on the Hemi and someday I might actually put it on the truck.



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Speaking of Air Cleaners.

Ma Mopar used oval air cleaners on the Dual Quad Hemis in 58 that I always thought looked really neat.

S F 4 by M Patterson, on Flickr

Like most things that are really neat, originals are almost impossible to find and usually VERY expensive. I've seen beat up used pairs go for over grand. Of course reproductions are available .......over $300 a pair for fiberglass and $600 for primered steel (the filter elements....not included.... will set you back $50-75 each) They sure do look pretty chromed though.

S F 3 by M Patterson, on Flickr


For a hot rod though, I always thought this might make an interesting alternative in kind of the same style.

S F 5 by M Patterson, on Flickr


S F 2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


They're Harley Davison Sportster air cleaners. They take either paper or a K&N oval air filter which should support a dual quad application without any problem. They came in various widths over the years so you kind of have to watch for that when you look for them. The 70s era ones also have a metal base which should be pretty simple to convert for a 4 Barrel.

S F 6 by M Patterson, on Flickr

A big plus is most people end up changing out for a different style air cleaner and these are pretty readily available......I've seen ones with good chrome go in the $10-25 range.

And yes I do have entirely tooooo much time on my hands this morning





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Thanks for the pics and ideas Mike. Your bases look really nice. I went ahead and ordered a 6 pack lid last night. I also found K&N makes a replacement filter for them so I got one of those as well. I think this air cleaner will give a better look and not cover up the engine like my bat wing will.

It never fails, a couple of days after I got the 625 CFM Swap Meet carburetors rebuilt I found out a friend of mine had the carb that was a mate for an early 60s Cadillac carb I had on the shelf. His was sitting gathering dust so we ended up doing a bit of trading and it ended up in my shop.

The Cadillac carbs are 575 CFM and I'd used a pair of them on my 65 Chevy years ago. They ran really well with the 350/4 speed in the Chevy and they had really been my first choice for the Hemi. I had the one and had been keeping an eye out for a mate for the last few years but had pretty much given up finding another.


Cad AF by M Patterson, on Flickr


I picked up a couple of kits and got them both taken apart and cleaned up. It looked like both had had a kit some time in their past but It had been a long time ago. When was the last time you took a carburetor apart and it had steel needles (no “rubber” tips) in it?

SN by M Patterson, on Flickr

They both cleaned up nice, so I now have 2 pairs of carbs to try out.


Cad AFB 2 by M Patterson, on Flickr

These AFBs are a little unusual compared to most of the ones produced. They don’t have an idle speed adjustment screw. The throttle plates are closed at idle and the speed is adjusted with the brass air bleed screw located between the fuel mixture screws. As they are the early AFBs they have the also have the smaller 4 7/32” air cleaner base instead of the 5 1/8” used on the later AFBs. I found an outfit that sells aluminum adapter rings for the air cleaners so I sprung for a pair of those too.

C2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


I figure I'll eventually try both pair of carbs on the 57 I'm kind of curious to see how much difference there will be between them.



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That worked out well I'd say.

I think so Ryan

Don;t know if you followed it or not but the Weiand Dual Quad intake and carbs went way cheaper than I thought it would ($475) !

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112642692463?rmvSB=true



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Originally Posted by Mike P

I think so Ryan

Don;t know if you followed it or not but the Weiand Dual Quad intake and carbs went way cheaper than I thought it would ($475) !

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112642692463?rmvSB=true



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I was wondering if you saw that, I thought that to be a decent price.

".....I thought that to be a decent price......."

I agree Ken. IMO for a used manifold that is still in production (new $375-400) and Carbs that are probably buildable but would need some work that is really a fair price.

If I didn't already have a manifold and carbs, I would pay that for it. Of course just because it went for $475 doesn't mean you could have won it for for $476. You don't know how much higher the winner was willing to go.



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Yeah, I saw that. I bet if I was bidding it would not have stopped there.

I spent the last few days sorting out the linkage for both pairs of AFBs. Building linkage on the bench is a lot easier than doing it stretched over a fender . The Carter 625s were already on the intake so I started with those. I set both pairs of carbs up for synchronized and progressive linkage so I can easily change over and find out what the engine likes best.

The synchronized linkage was a snap and took just a couple of minutes to set up.


DQS by M Patterson, on Flickr


The progressive linkage is just slightly more complicated but still pretty simple. It's so simple I just couldn't bring myself to spend $35 for a pre-made set so I spent about an hour building my own. I basically just copied the style used on the Chevys Dual Quad 409 cars.


DQ P by M Patterson, on Flickr


There is just enough difference between the throttle arms on the 625 CFM Carters and the Caddy AFBs that the linkage wouldn't directly interchange so I just built a second set for the Caddy carbs.


Cad afb s by M Patterson, on Flickr


Cad AFB P by M Patterson, on Flickr


Here's a shot of the other side with the fuel line.

DQFL by M Patterson, on Flickr

I've gone about as far as I can on the dual quads until it's time to install them. For now I'll throw a towel over them until I get some more Plymouth time.



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