Thread: Spitfire / Hemi build

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Mike, here are a couple of pictures for you.

Sent you a PM Ryan.


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Not much new to show on the engine stuff but I'll be getting the block tomorrow so I can see what I have to start with. I've been using the "down time" getting ready for Christmas.

Tree by M Patterson, on Flickr


I did spend some time wandering around the local wrecking yard yesterday and came across this.


".........please never show me pictures of your perfectly preserved, mummified, Arizona " junkyard " cars again......."


Sorry Seth

55 Dodge by M Patterson, on Flickr


It's a 55 Dodge 2 Dr Ht. It's solid and pretty straight and even still has the baby 241 Red Ram hemi in it (that could probably be made to run again). It's 3spd overdrive car with the broken transmission in the trunk.

10 years ago it would already be sitting here at my place as the car for the engine to go in (I've started with worse). 5 years ago I probably would have been dealing on it as a potential project or something to sell and make a few bucks on. For now I'm going to pass on it......I'm actually keeping an eye out for a "done" car that already has decent paint and upholstery.



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Looks like a decent TA by it and maybe a malibu 300? The 55 does look very solid. I don't blame you for wanting to find something nicer to start with. It will definitely save time and head aches. Well, maybe I guess.

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OOOOOOoooo, and a IH Scout behind it. I'd love another one of those.

Originally Posted by 34_40

OOOOOOoooo, and a IH Scout behind it. I'd love another one of those.

In the picture it looks like they even rust in the Arizona sun.

Originally Posted by 34_40

OOOOOOoooo, and a IH Scout behind it. I'd love another one of those.

In the picture it looks like they even rust in the Arizona sun.

You guys have good eyes. The Firebird is actually a Formula, not sure about the Chevelle, and yes those Scouts rust even out here (although relatively speaking that one’s not too bad. Always liked the Scouts too. The Chrysler Plymouth Dealer I worked at in the 60s also had the IH truck dealership, so we had those as service vehicles….even got a factory V8 one in once.


I picked up the last major piece yesterday…..the block. It took longer to move the car around to a concrete pad than it did to get the hood off and block out. After I got it home I pulled the cam, knocked out the freeze plugs and did a cursory check for cracks. At this point everything looks good.


BR by M Patterson, on Flickr


It’s currently marinating in the citric acid to get the water jackets cleaned out and then over to Dave’s for cleaning, Magnafluxing and sonic checking.




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The first thing I wanted to put out concerns the citric acid de-rusting. I am very pleased with the results but have a word of caution if the parts you de-rust are going to a machine shop. Most of the jet washes use a caustic solution as the cleaner which is a base. As acids and bases react with each other it is very important to clean/neutralize any residual acid from the parts to prevent foaming in the jet wash (yeah found out the hard way). In addition to a clean water rinse and air drying the parts before I send them in I am now adding a quick soak in water and baking soda followed by another clean water rinse and blow dry before I send the parts to the machine shop.

I didn't get a picture of the block after it's soak, but it came out as clean as the rest of the parts. The one surprise on the block was that at some point it had already been bored to .030 .....and then driven enough to wear it out again. I'm pretty sure it can go out to at least .060 and the sonic check should tell me it will take the additional .065 to get it to 3.9375 354 bore size.

While my wrist is healing Dave at the machine shop should be able to get a lot of the initial machining done so I can get some decisions made about the pistons and cam.


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This will probably be the last update for a bit.

Dave got the block and both sets of heads magnafluxed and everything checked out so far. Still waiting on him to get a chance to get the block sonic checked. Provided that goes well the next step will be to line hone and square deck the block. While he's doing the machine work he's also going to bore the freeze plug holes to allow me to use a regular cup type freeze plug instead of the original disc type.

I had been kicking around where I want the static compression ratio to come in at. As I want to eventually drive whatever car it goes into cross country I've resigned myself to limiting it to crap premium pump gas. Locally the only thing that is available is E10 92 octane and I suspect that by the end of the year that will change to E15. The last I checked the closest place (short of a small local airport 25 miles away) to buy non-ethanol gas is Phoenix (180 miles away).

I'm leaning towards about 9:1 static compression (I'll be playing with dynamic compression numbers when I choose a cam.). With that in mind I found a set of NOS standard 1956 Chrysler 354 Hemi Pistons that I couldn't pass up. From what I can find out in the old shop manuals these gave an advertised compression ratio of 9:1 (which was usually a bit optimistic) but at least should put me close. Provided the block can go to 354 CI at least I can use the pistons for mockup and get the information I need to have a set of custom pistons made if needed.

Dave will probably also get a chance to get started on the heads. The amount of milling is still to be determined. I'm leaning towards at least .015-.020 which is about the difference between the compressed thickness of the original steel shim head gasket and the currently available composite head gaskets and makes about a 1/4 point difference in compression.

The Hemi heads will get new stock valves. The Poly heads will be opened up for larger 1.94 intake and probably slightly bigger exhaust valve (1.559 vs the original 1.50). The Poly heads will also be getting hardened seats.

With luck by the time I'm healed up I should be able to mock stuff together and see what I can run for a cam.


So anyway that's where this project is.


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Hope the surgery goes well for you Mike! Keep us updated, even though typing with one hand is a slow, slow process!

Everybody knows you will end up with the hemi-quit fooling yourself and move on with it
are you going to do hardened seats in the hemi heads?

Time for me to catchup on this thread, just saw it today!

"........Everybody knows you will end up with the hemi-quit fooling yourself....."

I never said otherwise Jerry.

From Post 1


"........The plan is to do the initial assembly, test stand and eventually install the engine in a car in the Poly/Tri Power configuration. Depending on how well it performs (or how long it takes me to want to experiment further) I'll have the HEMI heads ready to bolt on........"


Plans for testing the Hemi/Poly configurations evolved a bit further....from post 7


"........Right now I'm looking at the initial configuration being as a Poly with Tri-Power and then switching over to Fuel injection. The next step will be switching over to the HEMI heads with fuel injection......I'll probably not bother checking carburetors against the fuel injection with the Hemi configuration as I pretty much already know what a 331 and 354 carbureted engine runs like.

Not sure exactly how I'm going to test the combinations......I want to do a little better than the old seat of the pants thing and I don't really want to go thru the dragging the engine back and forth to the engine Dyno in Tucson. My other 2 options once I get the engine in a car are putting it on a chassis Dyno (my friend who runs a local speed shop usually brings the portable chassis Dyno to his shop twice a year). Though not as accurate, taking it to Tucson Dragway a few times for testing also has a certain appeal....."



As far as the hardened seats for the Hemi heads, every first Gen Chrysler Hemi I've come across came from the factory with replaceable hardened seats, including this one. At least that's one step I won't have to go thru.

The thing that appeals to me about this little project is that this is basically just a head swap. Intake manifolds, accessories, etc all interchange between the different heads. The exhaust flanges are different, but think I've figured out a way I can make a set of HEMI headers work with the Poly heads (and custom headers aren't that hard if I have to).


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Mike I was trying to be funny--------