Thread: Spitfire / Hemi build

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Not much of an update, but I did find something interesting today while I was sorting thru the Poly parts. Turns out the Poly pushrods are only .065 shorter than the intake (short) pushrods for the 331/354 Hemi.


Hemi poly PR by M Patterson, on Flickr


Regardless of the cam I use in the short block I'll be ordering adjustable pushrods, and it was kind of a pleasant surprise to find out that I won't have to worry about having to have oddball length custom pushrod made (the .065 difference is well within the adjustable range). So it looks like I'll be able to just order a complete set of pushrods for the hemi heads and an extra 8 intake pushrods to cover the Poly heads.



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My wrist is getting a little better so I was able to get some light parts cleaning done. This weekend was spent getting the valley cover cleaned up.

The original valley covers have the oil fill tube and provisions for a PCV valve (the original location for the road draft tube). The cover is made in 2 pieces and also acts as the oil separator for the PCV system.

Most of the aftermarket valley covers I looked at have a flush mount oil fill which looks nice but can be a PIA to add a quart of oil to when you are on the road. They also have no provisions for a PCV valve. The common work around for the PCV is a bolt on breather kit for the valve covers. IMO they look OK on aftermarket valve covers but not so much on stock stamped ones like I'll be using let alone the Poly covers the engine will start out with.


With that in mind I decided to use the original valley cover rather than go the aftermarket market route.



VP1 by M Patterson, on Flickr


The biggest problem with using the original cover is getting them clean......years of running non-detergent oil usually leaves a bunch of crud on the inside. It was not a problem years ago when most machine shops used a hot tank and they could be soaked to dissolve the stuff but the jet washes most shops use now don't do much good on the inside of them. The top and bottom of the cover are spot welded together and some guys split them for cleaning. I took an easier route and after I had it jet washed to get the outside crud off I soaked it in my 5 gallon bucket of carb cleaner for a couple of days. I managed to get a flashlight and dental mirror in to verify that it was completly clean and this is ready for a coat of paint.

VP2 by M Patterson, on Flickr

OK saving almost $300 on aftermarket parts is also a big plus.





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By mutual agreement my block has been pretty much sitting in queue at the machine shop while my hand heals. In the mean time I've been collecting parts and making a few measurements.

Dave currently has 2 other 331 HEMIs under construction at his shop so I've been able to get some measurements off those for reference when I make a decision of what pistons I'll be using in my engine.

One engine is a customer's 331 that is using Hot Heads stock replacement (.030) pistons. This is just pretty much a stock rebuild so it's not going thru the steps to figure what the actual compression ratio, but I did get piston pin height on the pistons before they were installed and deck height numbers off it for comparison.

Y SR by M Patterson, on Flickr


We haven't sonic checked my block yet so it's still up in the air as to what pistons I'll be using. I got a couldn't pass up deal on a set of NOS standard bore 354 Pistons that may go in it. These are about .060 taller than the stock replacement pistons HH sells but have a lot more valve relief.


Y NOS by M Patterson, on Flickr

Just fort grins this is the 331 Dave is building for himself using Ross pistons. With the aluminum heads that will go on it will be right at 10:1 compression.


Y 10 1 by M Patterson, on Flickr


I've also been collecting more parts for my build. My Hot Heads order came in.....mostly the parts I know I'll need regardless of the heads and cam I'll be using. I'm using the Hot Heads thin timing cover and lower pulleys which are the same as what I currently have on the 354 in my 57 Plymouth. The water pump pulley is actually an aftermarket 2 groove pulley for a small block Chevy with short water pump. It lines up perfectly with the HH lower pulleys and is about 1/3 the cost of HH billet one.

I also stumbled across a OLD Fel Pro head gasket set the 331/354 Poly. It had been mis-advertised as being for an early Hemi and had no takers so the price was right. It's got the steel shim head gaskets (worth about a 1/4 point compression over the composite gaskets).

I was also pleasantly surprised to find out HH sells the solid copper exhaust flange gaskets. The set I bought from a different vendor for the Hemi in the 37 turned out to be composite with thin sheets of copper on either side.


Y inv by M Patterson, on Flickr


When I built the 331 and 354 HEMIs back in 2006 I didn't add the lower spark plug tube seals HH sells. I've pulled the plugs on both engines a couple of time. When I restart the 354 afterwards it gives off a little puff of smoke when it's started again and then it's fine. When I pull the plugs on the 331 and restart it smokes like a train until the oil that falls in the cylinder is burned off. As the HEMI heads that will eventually go on this engine are the same triple nickel heads that the other 331 uses I'll be using HH lower tube seals on this one.


I like the looks of the 426 spark plug boots on the early HEMIs. When I built my other HEMIs they sold custom spark plug tubes that were flanged at the top for stock 426 boots. Those tubes are apparently no longer available but HH sells a push in 426 "style" boot for use with the stock spark plug tubes. Their site didn't have a real good picture of what the boots looked like so here's a better picture. I can live with them especially as I have a bunch of good stock plug tubes I can use (which saves about $150 by not having to buy the custom tubes if they were even available).


Y PT by M Patterson, on Flickr



So that's about were I'm currently at.



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After almost 2 ½ years we have some forward movement on the engine build. It got back burnered because of the new house, move and the kids moving into out old house and just life in general.

The Poly (Spitfire) part of the build is still on the back burner. Turns out the 301 Poly heads I have likely are not going to work because of the chamber size which will overhang the cylinder heads once we take the bore out .125 for the 354 Pistons. I’ve put the word out that I’m looking for a pair of 1957 354 Poly heads but so far haven’t had any luck locating any. I’m still looking at doing the Poly heads at some point but for now it’s going to be going together as a HEMI.

Speaking of which we did get the block sonic checked and it’s good to go out the .125” we want for the 354 pistons. Technically we only have to go out .085” as it had already been bored .040 on a previous rebuilt. Dave also got the mains line honed and next up will be square decking the block. As I don’t know for sure if the engine will be getting an automatic or a stick behind it, we also need to get the back of the crank drilled for a pilot bearing.

I got around to ordering the rest of the parts I need to finish up the engine. With the availability of some parts and the price increases I sure wish I’d done that a year and a half ago. I elected to hold of on the roller cam for now and just ordered a flat tappet hydraulic cam from Hot Heads.

So it looks like I have a winter project this year.


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After 4 months on backorder the cam finally came in last week, so Dave (69Bee) was able to get the cam bearings in and make sure there weren’t going to be any binding issues. That was the last thing to do on the block before I brought it home.

After the sonic check the block was square decked and line honed then bored for the 354 pistons. Dave had already bored the step out of the freeze plug holes so I could use cup type freeze plugs instead the factory disc plugs.

With the block home I chased all the threaded holes, got the pipe plugs in, painted it and installed the freeze plugs. It sure looks a lot better than the rusty lump I started with.

354 block by M Patterson, on Flickr

Dave doesn’t do crank grinding or balancing so the rotating assembly is out for those 2 jobs. When it comes back I’ll assemble the short block. Who knows Dave might even have the heads done by then. I’ve also got a couple of parts from Hot Heads that I’m waiting on anyway.



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While I’m waiting on the rotating assembly to come back I decided to go ahead and get some of the little things done.

I’m using a Hot Heads dual plane, single quad intake for this one. Of the options out there I figured this would probably work the best when I convert to fuel injection.

HHI1 by M Patterson, on Flickr


A friend of mine used one on a customers’ engine and had issues getting the manifold bots to start straight due to inference between the cap screw heads and runners. After examining mine it looked like I’d run into the same problem so I did a little relieving on some of the runners. Hot Heads only drills and taps the front 2 water outlets on the intake. I usually like to run one of the heater hoses to the passenger side rear port so I drilled and tapped that one. Visually I’m trying keep this build kind of low key (not a lot of bling) so the intake got a coat of red paint to match the engine.


HHI2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


I had the stuff to build a 4 speed adapter set aside so I dug that out and cleaned it off so I can hang the engine on the run stand and bolt a starter to it when I get to that point.


Bell by M Patterson, on Flickr




I’d salvaged a couple of 301 Poly distributors when I got the Spitfire Heads a couple years back as they will also fit the 331/354 HEMIs.


Dist 1 by M Patterson, on Flickr


These are pretty easy to convert to SB MOPAR electronic internals. One is set up with mechanical and vacuum advance. That one that will be used when the engine is on the stand and the engine is carbureted. I set the other one up with the advance locked for when I convert to fuel injection. The lock out conversion was actually pretty simple using old “Lean Burn” pieces (anybody remember those horrible things).


Dist Conv by M Patterson, on Flickr



I also got around and went thru one of the swap meet AFBs I’d picked up. It had gotten a fair amount of corrosion on the outside but was beautiful on the inside so it got cleaned and a kit. I’ts only 600 CFM but that should be plenty for the test stand to break the cam in and run once in a while.


carb 354 by M Patterson, on Flickr



And I got a bunch of the little parts painted so they’ll be ready to go on.

misc parts by M Patterson, on Flickr



I’d really like to get the alternator, AC compressor bracket, power steering pump brackets and air cleaner built but that will have to wait until I get the engine assembled.

Oh well back to waiting.



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Looking great, Mike! I'm always impressed with your knowledge of the early Hemi's and all of the supporting parts & pieces that go along with making a complete package. You need to write a book!!

Everything looks great, Mike. I do remember lean burn, just thinking about it could give me nightmares! Sure is going to be a sweet engine!

“……. I do remember lean burn, just thinking about it could give me nightmares!.......”

Yeah Dave when it came to the early emission systems in the 70s they all pretty much sucked but I’d have to put the Chrysler Lean Burn/Electronic Spark Control, right at the top of the bad pile. Never thought I’d have anything good to say about them but the pieces made the conversion drop in.

I was dealing with a guy back east for the parts I needed to convert the distributors and mentioned that I would set up one with the advance locked out. He reminded me of the old lean burn distributors and happened to have the parts on hand.


“…..I'm always impressed with your knowledge of the early Hemi's and all of the supporting parts & pieces that go along with making a complete package. You need to write a book!!......”

Naw, Roger I’m just fortunate to have the books that were written by the smart people .

I got to admit it feels a little strange putting this engine together and only putting a single carburetor on it. Even having the Hot Heads intake on hand I came really close to pulling the trigger on a Weiand Dual Quad unit last week and I noticed that Gear Drive is producing new 6 two barrel intakes like the Drag Star I’m running on the 37 Dodge. Heck I even have the Tri-Power I ran on the 57 all rebuilt and setting on the shelf.

I really want to play with fuel injection though and this 4 barrel intake seems like it may be the best one to try it with.

Of all the engines I’ve built since I’ve lived here (at 4500 ft) the early HEMIs seem to be the most sensitive to altitude changes. Even a “short” trip to Tucson is a drop to 2000 feet and going to Phoenix I drop to 1000 feet. The trip back to Illinois I go clear down to 200 feet. I’m hoping whatever system I end up choosing will be able to handle the adjustments to AF ratio and timing to compensate.

If it doesn’t I still have carbs and strip kits



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Nothing wrong with going EFI, but man, 6 twos would have been super cool!

The build looks great.

“…..Nothing wrong with going EFI, but man, 6 twos would have been super cool!......”

They are Mike! I still have the 37 Dodge PU with the Drag Star on it……I get it out once every week or 2.


37 eng by M Patterson, on Flickr


It’s nothing but a ton of fun. The 46RH and Dana with 4.56s has actually turned out to be a very street friendly combination and definitely cruises comfortably on the highway.



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I think you'll like the FI Mike. When I did the '36 roadster the best setup I felt at the time was the MSD Atomic, I especially liked the minimalist wiring harness to keep the engine compartment clean. Since then a bunch of similar systems have come out and the prices have gone down significantly. For a while the FI Tech products have been popular, but I don't follow that stuff much anymore so don't know what's available now a days. You have one in mind?

That picture was worth logging onto the site today! Wish I could have given it more than one like! Looks just as good as I thought it would.

I’ve been reading up on the different systems off and on for the last couple of years Bob. At one point I was pretty sold on the FI Tech unit until I had some discussions with a friend who runs a speed shop and has done a couple of those, he’s not a real fan.

Lately I’ve been taking a closer look at the Holley Sniper and if I had to pull the trigger on a unit right now I would probably go that route.

In my opinion it’s kind of hard to get info I fully trust or that answers all my questions on any of the systems. You either get write ups/videos by the company who builds the system (they're all glowing of course) or you get the comments by users who are having problems (which in a lot of cases track down to improper installation, unrealistic expectations, or the occasional bad part). In most cases I try to have the salt shaker handy when I’m reading but with my eyes, it’s getting harder to pry out the grain of salt I need when I’m going thru the stuff.

The problem as I see it is that there could be a large number of any of the systems out there that were installed and work the way they should but the guys never comment either way.

The real information I’d like to see on any of the systems is their reliability over the long term. You guys that have been on the site for a long time know about my trips back to Illinois. My real concern (and real test) on any of the engines that I build is that they can go 1500 miles only stopping for gas then do about 1000 “in and around” miles then another 1500 miles straight thru back to AZ going from 4500 ft to 200 ft and back again. Oh and did I mention temperatures ranging from below freezing to 110 degrees.

Right now I’m still in the research stage and would welcome any comments/recommendations from the group. I also know that whatever the current latest and greatest may have changed by the time I actually buy a system.

Whatever I choose I’m sure it will be an adventure and learning curve




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“…..Looks just as good as I thought it would……”

Actually sounds pretty decent too


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndlUhQnqq4Q


Sometimes I can’t help myself………there’s 2 minuets of your life you’ll never get back



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