Thread: Spitfire / Hemi build

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Your truck is super cool, and sounds amazing!

On the EFI, I did mine in 2011 when things were evolving, ahead of the plug & play packages, self-learn tuning and more reasonable pricing . The one thing I would offer is to be SURE to run your EFI power direct from the positive post of the battery like the instructions tell you. In my initial install I told myself that the bulkhead connector on the firewall, fed by a 1/0 welding cable from the battery in the trunk would be the same, but the drawdown of the starter caused me starting problems for months!! I ran a #10 from the +terminal to the EFI unit and it was night & day difference.

I have been reading and watching the Holley Sniper tech board on FB and you don't want to go there for reliability encouragement. Holley does have a few issues that are easily fixed by yourself. Sometimes people post they get gun shy of the Holley because of all the issues on the FB board but then a ton of people chime in to say how happy and trouble free they have been. Seems like most issues are improper installation and RFI with the Hyperspark. Clean proper wiring and good grounds are a must ! I am pretty much finished installing it on my T/A so if you got any questions I have a little experience with it, about 50 miles so far

Mike, the comments from Roger and Seth above are part of why the feedback loop we will often have to rely on need that grain of salt thing you mentioned. I'll drop in another example from outside the automobile subject as an extreme, but representative, example. One of my other passions is cooking, primarily outdoor but all encompassing. One of the head shaking examples of the pitfalls of online "feedback" is on just about any Amazon listing. Those familiar with proper care, treatment, and use of cast iron cookware know that you shouldn't subject it to harsh cleaning products, e.g. caustic "soaps" like dishwasher tablets/powders. But, go on Amazon for almost any cast iron pan and you'll find negative feedback about perceived "poor quality materials" because some dolt claims it rusted badly the first time they ran it through their dishwasher. I suspect a certain amount of the online negatives are, as Seth noted, they don't know what they don't know. And that's probably a particular issue with the FI Tech perhaps. When I did the Atomic unit the starting price was roughly $2k, but the real, installed price was more near $2.5k, and more complicated, by only a bit, than plug and play. When the FI product hit the market their "base price" was less than a grand, though, again, the installed price probably ended up close to twice that. Still a big drop if compared to the Atomic, so price shoppers likely flocked to it giving the appearance of popularity. I was very happy with the Atomic, but it did require some firmware updates and a few longish conversations/back and forths with their tech support. IIRC though, now Holley, Edelbrock, and MSD are all under one corporate umbrella. Whether that means there's shared hardware/development between the companies or not I don't know. The umbrella is an investment bank/company so they may hold each company to autonomous standards, or not. I think your idea of seeking out professional installers for feedback is the best approach, with little to no credence extended to unknown skills of "amateurs".

I think I will have about $1500 into mine give or take when I'm done. I went with the sniper refurbished unit which I've heard very good things about, and I got a deal on a Pontiac distributor on FB. The coil driver, coil, pump, fuel line and other miscellaneous things do add up quickly though.

Seth I appreciate the picture you posted of your Sniper.

One of the projects I’m going to be doing is building an air cleaner for the HEMI. I’ve got a MOPAR 6 Pack air cleaner lid and filter but I’ll be building the base for it. I actually have the base plate cut out.


6 pack Base by M Patterson, on Flickr


I’m figuring that as tall as the intake manifold is I’m going to want to drop the air cleaner a bit for hood clearance and aesthetics. My plan is to graft a drop base to the plate I’ve cut. After looking at your Sniper unit I kind of doubt the drop base I was planning on using will work with Sniper (if I go that route).

Fortunately I see Holley makes a drop base for the Sniper and the price is reasonable so I’ve now got one on order. For the price if I go with the Sniper it will probably come in handy and if not, it can sit on the shelf with some of my other “good ideas” .




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Holley makes a Sniper that is supposed to be a direct replacement for a regular Holley 4150 carb. Not sure what you built (or or building) the base to fit.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/550-872

You might be able to get a dimensioned drawing from Holley on the throttle body. I found drawings for a couple of their intake manifolds on their website during my build. You might contact their tech department to get dimensions.

If you get the Holley 4150, you'll most likely need the linkage extension arm to make the throttle not so touchy. It's nearly undrivable if you have a four-speed, people will think you're a 12-year-old learning how to drive a clutch cuz you'll be burning off the tires everywhere. I ended up putting the progressive linkage on which will open the secondaries in progression, My TA air cleaner would not fit with the arm extension so that's why we went with a progressive. I still have the Holly Street demon air filter which is a drop base, I'd be more than willing to sell that to you if you need it. It says Demon on it because of the Holley Street demon carburetor. The quadrajet style sniper works pretty much like a quadrajet and has smaller primaries and large secondaries with progressive linkage on it from the factory.

The rotating assembly came back from the balancer today, so begins the assembly.

Normally I’d get a little farther along before I posted anything but I came across something that might be of interest to some.

For the last few decades I’ve used Plastigauge for a quick check on the Mains and Rods when I assemble an engine. Normally everything’s fine (I’ve had a couple over the years where I was glad I did though).

When I was checking the mains everything was coming out a little loose (as in about a thousands bigger than it should be).

So I pulled the crank and torqued the caps and bearings back in place. I pulled out the gauges and everything was right on the money. Don’t know if I just got a bad stick of plastigauge or what. I don’t think it goes bad with age, even if it does, I just picked this batch up a couple weeks ago. I’ll do the rods tomorrow, it will take a bit longer but it’s worth it for peace of mind.


At least I got the crank in today…….of course that was after I found out my tube of silicone had dried up when I went to put a dab on the ends of the rear main seal. Ahhh what’s a trip to town in the middle of doing something.



crank 354 by M Patterson, on Flickr



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Friend of mine went through the same issue on his build earlier this winter. Quality on many things seems to be an issue these days, who would have thought it about plasti-gauge?

I saw this and it reminded me of you! LOL

Sooo many good ideas right there.......kinda makes you think they should have spread them out of 3 or 4 vehicles.



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With the crank, rods and piston in, I installed the Hot Heads SB MOPAR oil pump, adapter and pickup. The instructions say a bit of fitting might be needed to get the neck on the drive to fully seat in the main cap (and on mine there was).


354 OP by M Patterson, on Flickr


There are 2 basic styles of passenger car oil pans for the 331/354/392 Hemi’s and Polys; the rear sump pans (foreground) used from 1951thru 1956 and the center sump used in 1957-8. For now I’m setting this engine up with a rear sump pan (and this became a bit of an issue a little later).


2 oil pans by M Patterson, on Flickr


I normally like to run a windage tray. Back when I built the 331 (in my 37 Dodge truck) and the 354 (in my 57 Plymouth) there were a couple of options available.

If you can find one, the factory actually used a windage tray the first couple of years of the 331 HEMI with the rear sump pan. The tray was bolted to the pan rail area on 4 legs. I used this setup with on the 331 I built with the rear sump pan.


3 0il pickup 331 Cap by M Patterson, on Flickr


When I built the 354 for the Plymouth they (can’t remember if it was Hot heads or PAW) offered a modified SB MOPAR windage tray for the early HEMIs’.



4 SB windage tray by M Patterson, on Flickr


Basically they relocated the tabs that bolt to the main cap bolts to move the windage tray up a bit for counter weight clearance. This setup worked great with the center sump oil pan on the 57 Plymouth.



5 Oil pickup 354 cap by M Patterson, on Flickr




I had a SM MOPAR windage tray and bolts set aside and figured modifying it should be fairly easy. This is when I discovered that the front section of the rear sump oil pan is a little shallower than the center sump pan. Basically I couldn’t get the windage tray high enough to clear the counter weights on the front throws without interfering with the oil pan.


340 WT by M Patterson, on Flickr


I looked up the windage tray Hot Heads sells to see how theirs looked. Basically their windage tray is shorter and stops just shy of the #2 main cap. The windage tray main cap bolts are now bolted on the #3 and #4 main caps.


It was a pretty simple mod so what the heck. Now do I NEED windage tray on a street motor that may at the most might see a drag strip once or twice…..NO. If I didn’t have the windage tray would I spend the money to buy one for this motor…..NO. Would it really bother me not to have a windage tray in this motor…..NO. Basically I had the windage tray laying around so all I had tied up in it was some time.


Mod Tray by M Patterson, on Flickr



So at the end of the day I now have a 354 short block.


354 SB by M Patterson, on Flickr



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The heads aren’t back yet but I got the front cover and pan on this week and I got the balancer taken care of.

There are a few options for bolt-on balancers available for the early HEMI. The “stock replacement” balancer that Hot Heads sells is not currently available. These were off the shelf 318/340 balancers for the internally balanced small blocks. They had a new keyway cut for the larger key the HEMI crankshaft uses and are indexed so the timing marks lined up with the timing pointer on the Hot Heads timing cover. Even if they had been available it was still cheaper to have the machine shop cut the new keyway in the balancer I bought.

MB by M Patterson, on Flickr


I decided to build my own accessory brackets for this engine. Nothing against the aluminum brackets that Hot Heads sells but they are a little gaudy for how I want this engine to look. Saving a few bucks is always a plus too so this is pretty much a win win.


For the Power Steering Pump I just duplicated the brackets I had previously made for the 57 Plymouth. It’s basically a slightly modified SB Chevy Saginaw bracket and a couple of braces to hold the pump solid.


HP1 by M Patterson, on Flickr



HP3 by M Patterson, on Flickr


PSI by M Patterson, on Flickr



The alternator bracket is pretty easy to do. On my pervious 2 HEMIs I modified a 69-82 SB Chevy Truck/Corvette bracket.


SBPS by M Patterson, on Flickr


I actually have a spare bracket I’d previously modified laying around. I’d also picked up a different bracket for a 69-71 Chevy truck with AC a while back and decided to modified that one too (which entailed nothing more than elongating the mounting holes and grinding a small clearance notch). I’m not sure which one I’ll be using yet, the 69-71 bracket moves the alternator out and up a bit which may be helpful with the 6 pack air cleaner.


AB by M Patterson, on Flickr



I got some of the pieces for the AC compressor bracket rough cut but can’t really do much with that until I get the heads and water crossover on the engine.

So back to staring at the short block and waiting on parts. LOL



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Clean over gaudy any day Mike, well done!

Aaahhhh…..what could have been. LOL


WCB 1 by M Patterson, on Flickr



I got the flywheel and bellhousing on this week so I could move the short-block over to the run stand for final assembly. Still waiting on the heads so I figured I’d go ahead and throw the Poly heads on and finish up the brackets. I couldn’t resist digging out the old Tri-Power just to see how it would have looked. Spent entirely too much time staring at it LOL.


I finally took the Tri-Power off and installed the Hot Heads intake and went ahead and built the AC Compressor brackets. I duplicated the PAW AC bracket I’m using on the 57 Plymouth. The design is pretty simple, just a bit of work getting everything lined up with the bolt holes before welding it together. I had enough material left over I ended up making 2 sets (just in case I ever do come across a buildable Spitfire). I only did one set of spacers as they are unique to whatever manifold I use.

AC B by M Patterson, on Flickr


So that pretty much wraps up the accessories. The more I study the Poly the more impressed I am with what Chrysler did. They designed a completely new head but with the exception of the pistons everything in the short-block is the same between the Poly and HEMI. They incorporated design features that allowed all external parts (with the exception of the exhaust manifolds) to interchange between the HEMI and POLY. Basically anything you can do to a HEMI you can also do to the Poly.



ACB by M Patterson, on Flickr




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