Thread: Soldier's beef about war has a familiar ring

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I didn't want to take that other thread anymore off topic than it already was. Here is an article that voices my concern:

Soldier's beef about war has a familiar ring

By Doug Robinson
Deseret Morning News

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0...196362,00.html

The only way to know what it's really like in Iraq, a soldier told me recently, is to talk to someone who has actually been there, on the front lines.
So I did.
I talked to Seth Allen, a 23-year-old from Sandy who completed three tours in Iraq for the U.S. Marine Corps infantry and lived to tell about it.
He returned from his last tour this summer. When he stepped off the plane onto U.S. soil, he literally kissed the ground right there on the tarmac.
He considers himself lucky to have survived with nothing more than a small shrapnel wound. He figures three tours — a total of two years — are pushing the odds. Looking back, he is happy and proud to have served his country, which was a lifelong dream, but he did have one complaint about the war in Iraq.
It wasn't the staggering heat or the three-day reconnaissance missions with 160 pounds of equipment on his back.
It wasn't dodging bullets on almost a daily basis, although he would have preferred not to.
It wasn't even the threat of roadside bombs known as improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, one of which killed two comrades who were walking 20 yards behind him.
It wasn't being stuck in a barren foreign land while his buddies were home going to college and dating, although it certainly crossed his mind.
His complaint was this: "They didn't let us fight."
They're playing by two sets of rules in Iraq. The enemy has no rules. The Americans have so many rules that they have to think before they act, which can be hazardous to their health. Terrorists are directing one side, politicians the other.
When Allen pulled his first tour of Iraq, in 2004, the rules of engagement were simple: If you believe your life is in danger, you can engage, which is to say fire a weapon.
"No one (Iraqis) was allowed to carry guns, and if they had one, you could shoot, although we didn't do that — we would detain them and take their gun," says Allen.
By the time he returned for his second and third tours, the rules had changed. Iraqis were allowed to carry guns and even rocket-propelled grenade launchers in the street, and American soldiers could no longer engage threats except under certain circumstances.
"If a gun is pointed at the ground or straight up, you can't engage," explains Allen. "If they bring it up or down and break the 90-degree plane, we could engage, but by then it was too late. What it boils down to is this: You have to be shot at before you can engage. It's ridiculous."
If soldiers are approached by strangers with uncertain intent, they are expected to follow an escalation-of-force protocol known as "shout (stop!), show (a weapon), shove, shoot." The trouble is, if an enemy is allowed to approach within shoving distance, it could be much too late.
During Allen's first tour, when American soldiers suspected terrorist activity in a house or building, they blew down the door and charged inside. Now, says Allen, "We have to knock and ask if we can enter. If they say no, we tell them we're coming in anyway, but if they tell us to give them time so their women can cover their faces and arms, we have to give them five minutes. Meanwhile, they could be hiding things or arming weapons."
As a sniper, Allen was trained to provide long-distance precision fire support for combat operations, as well as perform recon and surveillance missions for the infantry. In the beginning, if he saw, for instance, terrorists burying a bomb at a known IED site, he was allowed free-fire capability.
"Now you have to call it in and get permission to engage, but more than likely they would send out a force to try to detain them, and by the time they got there (the terrorists) were gone. The only way we can protect ourselves from punishment if we engage is if we have proof or a photo of (a terrorist) putting the bomb in the ground and arming it."
Who's running this war, the ACLU? If we learned anything from Vietnam — and apparently we didn't — it's this: If we are going to go to war, if we are going to put soldiers in harm's way, don't tie their hands and put politicians in charge.
As Allen says, "If we could just do our job, we'd be fine. But we can't because of politics."

This has been my beef with this war for a long time. Either we are fighting a war or we are not. Our military is NOT there to "win the hearts and minds" of the Iraqis. That is NOT the function of the US military. The function of the US military is to protect and defend the United States of America against enemies who would threaten our Constitution and our freedom -- whether it is at home or abroad. It never has been their function to convince those in an occupied territory to like the USA, and we should not burden them with that now. That is the job of diplomats. Our men will make a good impression the majority of the time because they are mostly good men, but their job while they are there is to fight and win. They are not allowed to do their real job because they are too busy being burdened with politically correct BS.

The other week I saw a few articles where we had taken a poll asking the Iraqis how they feel we are doing? WTH is that about? Are we occupying their country or are we there to win a popularity contest with these people? This is not a peace corp mission. It's not that I think the Iraqi people should be disregarded, but since when do we go around asking the occupied how they "think we are doing" while occupying their land during a time of war? That is freaking insane! This isn't WalMart! Maybe we should put "How's my driving?" stickers on the backs of our tanks and Strykers?

Originally Posted by DennyW

You need to hear some stories from the Vietnam war. This isn't new stuff.

I can say I was getting pretty good on the quick draw.

Playing Audie Murphy were you?

DDSS..... Some things never change.

Originally Posted by DennyW

D D S S, thinking about it Yes, pretty much.

The show never changes, just the stage they play it on!!!!!