Thread: Need a New Computer

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I've done my research for my new homebuilt computer at Newegg and have had Denny review the list (Thanks Denny) and have made the CD/DVD writer change suggested and will further review the other(motherboard) by tomorrow or Sunday when I plan on ordering to get the offered pricing and/or rebates.

During my research I also found another materials supplier but have no experience with them and want to ask if others have and how the dealings were. Their prices in some cases are cheaper then Newegg. It is called ClubIT. Anyone ever bought from them? Experience - good or otherwise?

As a note, yes, I have purchased from Tiger in the past and have been satisfied and will also check pricing there as well

(Denny - there are more then a few bucks difference on some items so have had to broaden my sourcing sites)

Thanks

IC2, Would you mind posting what you and Denny hatched out? It would be of interest to me as to what you chose and why. I am flirting with the idea of building one of those microWulfs with the idea that I could get it done in about two months of the coldest weather and still not lose time on the car when the weather warms up. I got some time on the car yesterday in the warmer afternoon, but I came close to a head cold out there. My small garage heater just takes too long to make a difference and I am determined to not get a "dust cold" from working on the floor under the car where I need to mess with the final D-bar of the steering link so that will have to wait until a warm day whenever. In the colder days maybe I can build the microWulf. It looks like it could be upgraded to the faster AMD 64 X2 2400+ which has a 512Kb cache and runs at 2.2 GHz but maybe I am flirting with more power requirement than those little power supplies can provide? Still that dual chip is speced at only 65 watts compared to the original 45 watt AMD 3800+ units. The other components in the microWulf parts list still seem to be available and at lower prices. For a single board it would seem that the AMD X2 5000 chips are reasonably priced, but when buying four of them the price goes up and the power/heat problems go up. To me it looks like the AMD 64 X2 4200+ runs the coolest, has the lowest price and the largest cache for a multiple CPU setup. Maybe if I actually get a microWulf running I can put some flame decals on the top plate! I did have some correspondance with Prof. Adams who built the microWulf and he said it could take faster frequencies and more memory, but I worry about running four power supplies off of one 115VAC outlet. Still if the powere supplies are at 450 watts each that is about like running a 2000 watt spotlight which is marginal for one socket but if the chips only take 65 watts each (8x65=520 watts) the rest of the stuff may add up to less than a total of about 1000 watts? My circuit breaker will tell me!
Matt, tell me more why you don't like the SATA hard drive? The microWulf configuration used a 250Gb SATA, probably for speed? Are they hard to set up, more than just plugging the cables in the right sockets? You guys know as much or more than a lot of the Beowulf types from some of the answers I get from them. Busted-knuckle experience counts for a lot here too!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

SATA drives are good and fast w/ high speed buffers, but there a lot more expensive and any hard drive has a life span of about 5 years, less if there high
RPM drives . SATA is practicle in a RAID configuration, so you wouldn't loose data if 1 drive failed... BUT SATA is new, IDE/ ATA 133 is going out and in a few years will be totally outdated. SATA just like IDE/ ATA 133 is pretty much plug it in right following instructions and it'll work.. you may have to set the jumpers but master boots first, that's all you need to know.. 99% of the time even with IDE/ ATA 133 jumpering to cable select will work, as long as the HD is the first in the chain.

Don Shillady,
Yep, Denny and I "agreed" on much of what I had defined as my homebuilt computer. He made two suggestions, one of which I have taken, and the other wasn't.

The one that I did take was a no brainer - a better CD/DVD burner. The one he suggested was reviewed as running hot, so I went up one more notch and $5.00 in level

The second was that I should consider a mother board with more expansion capabilities. Since I see little chance of my computer needs being much more then what I'm doing now, have chosen not to change my mind. The MB that I did order has built in video, sound and lan capabilities so I have not ordered additional cards

I ordered everything from Newegg - they have the best selection, rated about as high as any internet supplier and the pricing was competitive. Another, ClubIT had some better prices, about as good a rating, but no product to sell!!

There was one screw up by me - I ordered XP Home rather then the Pro and will need to exchange. Dumb. Clicked the wrong box and during the PO review didn't pick it up. The PC will be Vista capable - I'm not and may never be.

This is my list of bits and pieces:

MB MSI K9NBPM2-FID NVS 210S AM2 - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$74.99)
(Mother board w/sound, video and lan)

MULTI-SLOT PRO-GEAR Xm-4U BLK/SIL R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$19.99)
(Internal camera type card reader)

CASE CM|RC-534-KKN2-GP BK RT - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$49.99)
(Cooler Master case)

PSU CM|RP-500-PCAR 500W RT - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$39.99)
(Cooler Master power supply - $30 rebate)

CPU AMD|A64 X2 3800+ AM2 2x512K R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$62.99)
(Includes a heat sink and fan)

MEM 1Gx2|G.SK F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$49.99)
(Memory - 2 gig)

FDD 1.44MB NEC|FD1231H-302 BK % - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$6.99)
(Floppy writer/reader)

HD 320G|WD 7K 16M SATA2 WD3200KSRTL - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$84.99)
(Hard drive by Western Digital)

DVD BURN LITE-ON|LH-20A1S SATA R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$34.99)
(Good reviews on this one)

MS WIN XP HOME w/SP2B SINGLE PACK % - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$89.99)
(DUMB MISTAKE - S/B XP Pro)

CPU THERMPASTE|ARCTIC SILVER5 3.5G% - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$5.99)

I also have a 19" Samsung DVI 941BW 4ms monitor on its' way. New keyboard and mouse will be sourced locally - Wally World/Best Buy/Comp USA or similar

The total, less shipping was $520, but I need to add $40 for the XP Pro exchange but subtract $30/40 for rebates - so ~$520 it is.

I could have spent some few dollars less but for sure, a lot more. This may not do a good enough job for your needs but it will be more then enough for mine - I'm an ME with little EE capabilities but basics

My case is scheduled to arrive today with the rest on Thursday

This search for the "right" computer has gotten to be fun plus very educational for me. All I need now are some person size Post-its to stick on me so at least part of it's retained so I can at least sound like I know whats going on

Later

An FDD?? Ooooo, how quaint. Now I know who to come to when I need one read or copied.

I just got a new Dell 22" wide screen for both work and home. Really like the sharpness at 1680 x 1050. At home, I connected with the DVI cable that came with it and what a difference. Might have to get a new video card with DVI output for work too. No more analog for this old fool.

Dave, Good luck with your build, sounds like you made some excellent choices. Should be a sweet system when assembled.

Originally Posted by mopar34

An FDD?? Ooooo, how quaint. Now I know who to come to when I need one read or copied.

I just got a new Dell 22" wide screen for both work and home. Really like the sharpness at 1680 x 1050. At home, I connected with the DVI cable that came with it and what a difference. Might have to get a new video card with DVI output for work too. No more analog for this old fool.

Dave, Good luck with your build, sounds like you made some excellent choices. Should be a sweet system when assembled.

Hey Bob, don't pick on me with an FDD for $6.99. I have hundreds of floppys and do use 'em for odds and ends.

I toyed with the idea of a 20 or 22 inch version but not sure that I could stand the visual shock going from the 15" that I have been squinting at for the last 3-4 years(plus $100 more ).

AHA - the UPS guy (person?) just delivered the new case while I was writing this - and of course, MADE IN CHINA!!!! But it does look substantial. Now I have to wait 'til Thursday for the rest of the goodies.

IR2, Thanks for the list, there are a lot of good bargains there. One thing you did not mention that I only caught while reading up on the Beowulf stuff is that you may want to use an anti-static wrist-strap and anti-static table pad when you assemble stuff on the mother board? Thanks for the list. I was just looking over my attic junk pile of past PCs and I think I can use an old monitor too.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

IR2, Thanks for the list, there are a lot of good bargains there. One thing you did not mention that I only caught while reading up on the Beowulf stuff is that you may want to use an anti-static wrist-strap and anti-static table pad when you assemble stuff on the mother board? Thanks for the list. I was just looking over my attic junk pile of past PCs and I think I can use an old monitor too.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don,
Static discharge is one of the main componenet safety items listed in the book I bought. While I'm not building one like they assembled, there are a lot of good tips/information there. As usual, any book like that is obsolete the day it's printed

And to add to Denny's note - the output of the PS - it's only about 12V - it's the input side that kicks.

IMHO - I'd save my pennies and return all those deposit bottles and buy a new 19-22 inch LCD monitor. That old VGA CRT monitor that you have in the attic just wont do the job any longer.

IC2, Have you forgotten the guy who scuffed his sneakers in Gym class and then touched your earlobe? This brings up the curious fact that the whole Earth is net negative since electrons from the Sun are trapped by the Earth's magnetic field (Northern Lights) while positive protons are heavier and go whizzing by the Earth (mostly). Thus what we call "ground" is actually a local negative charge of the environment, hence problems in equipment with a "floating ground". Cars like the '49 Cadillac and the '60s MGs had the circuits with grounds to the positive post of the battery and had a lot of electrical problems so that it is far better for the ground of a car to be attached to the negative post of the battery. The problem is not so much safety from shock as it is from a static discharge to a solid state chip. I think the minimum care for working around chips is to first MAKE SURE THE POWER IS OFF and then keep one hand on the case of the power supply. If the plug is still grounded in the wall as Denny says then you and the chassis are still grounded and at the same potential as the chip socket. For my own consideration I am most worried about a static charge zapping the main CPU when inserting it in the socket. I will probably assemble my mother boards before hooking up the power supplies so I think I will need the static hand ground strap and maybe a grounding cloth too. I am going to check with the PC repair guys at my university shop for their recommendation. I knew about this years ago and forgot about it so this discussion is helpful to me. I was interested in your choice of the AMD 64 X2 3800+ as to how you got the free fan? I am considering the AMD 64 X2 4000+ or 4200+ in 65w form just to get a slight bit more speed while keeping the wattage low. Thanks again for your list, I can learn from it.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Maybe I've just been lucky but I have never had a static problem on any of the dozen or so pc's that I have built over the last 20 years. Now mind you, I do tend to grasp the case sides when working on internals and I also make sure that I am on a tile or concrete floor or at least a plastic desk pad, but static has not been a problem. However, if you work in an environment that precludes you from doing any of those thngs than by all means use a anti static wrist strap or similar device. You can sometimes get them free or if not they only cost a couple of bucks. Cheap insurance.

Dave, I have used a 19" LCD monitor at work for several years (& a 19" CRT prior to that) and loved the 19. I've had a Sony 17" lcd at home for serveral years, and only recently upgraded to the 22 because I had the opportunity to get the Dell for under $200. Last weekend I got several ads offering 22" widescreens (Acer and Samsung) for about $169.

My wife actually didn't like the 22 at first, said she didn't like having to move her head back and forth to read the screen. I told her to learn to move her eyes instead. She must be okay with it, since she has spoken to me since.

when I'm working inside mine, I always make sure my arm is touching the unpainted case metal at all times, never had a problem


Also.. put the RAM in last, it completes a major circuit in the board, so with the memory in, it is much more susceptible to static discharge and getting fried

the memory itself is more sensative to static than the motherboard, but you only need to know how to touch it ( sides only, never pins ) and you will never have a problem

Matt, that is a very good suggestion. I joined another site for Beowulf folks and one of their current flurry of messages is regarding how to find bad memory locations using software tests. I guess this gets to be a problem when a lot of units are involved. Off hand I do not know how WINDOWS of any release detects or handles a bad memory location but apparently it does happen, especially when heat is a factor.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

CLEAR THE AIR TIME

OK guys - first of all - I did NOT say to NOT ground yourself to discharge the static and in fact said in general words that you should and that the book that I bought specifically said it was a PC safety item

Secondly, I also said, in general terms, that the output of the PS was 12V max, not input voltage and that the PC operating voltage was never more then 12V.

Don,
I need a middle of the road PC for Internet, spread sheets and general 'dog' work not one for scientific requirements for speed plus the price helped me keep the unit near the $500 mark that I was trying to not exceed (by too much, anyhow). These are the specs and listed near the bottom are the fan and heat sink:
Model
Brand AMD
Processors Type Desktop
Series Athlon 64 X2
Model ADA3800CUBOX
CPU Socket Type
CPU Socket Type Socket AM2
Tech Spec
Core Windsor
Multi-Core Dual-Core
Name Athlon 64 X2 3800+
Operating Frequency 2.0GHz
HT 2000MHz
L1 Cache 128KB+128KB
L2 Cache 2 x 512KB
Manufacturing Tech 90 nm
64 bit Support Yes
Hyper-Transport Support Yes
Virtualization Technology Support Yes
Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW! Professional
Voltage 1.30 V/1.35 V
Thermal Power 89W
Cooling Device Heatsink and Fan included
Manufacturer Warranty
Parts 3 years limited
Labor 3 years limited


The 4200 2.2 you are interested in has a fan and heatsink as well(I believe this is the correct CPU):

Processors Type Desktop
Series Athlon 64 X2
Model ADA4200CUBOX
Cooling Device Heatsink and Fan included

Originally Posted by DennyW

Well, anyway, just don't rub your foot on the floor before you pick your parts up.

In my youth() I had a cat that used to wake from a dead sleep and run when it heard me shuffling across the floor.....its' nose was a great ground ( never could figure out why that cat used to scratch me every chance it got )

i read the first few threads on here and you guys are scaring the crap out of me. I went from the ME to Vista thinking it had to be better. Sounds to me that i'm always a little to far ahead. With the ME, people were putting 98 back in and now people are dumping Vista for XP. I never had 98 or XP, they must be great