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Originally Posted by HOSS429

another long time no see post .. every since i built my V6 4,3 chevy pinto 20 years ago it has suffered from cold start issues .. even in warm weather .. i have electronic ignition and have wired it from the stock pinto HOT wire from the beginning .. i have recently found that if i hook a hot wire from the + battery to the + on the coil it will fire off immediately regardless if warm or not .. then i simply unhook the hot jumper and can go all day with normal ignition .. can i hook my + ignition to a post on the solenoid and solve this low voltage initial start up issue .. i understand electronic ignition needs 12 volts to operate but i dont know where to get 12 volts on my old points style wiring system . i dont want to go MSD as they have gotten too pricy ..

Early Chevy distributors used a ballast resistor to drop the voltage to the points after start up. That changed later, I don't remember when, to a resistance wire and both were connected to the "R" terminal on the solenoid. Run a wire, preferably 14 or 16 gauge, to the coil from the "R" post and that should solve your problem.

Originally Posted by NTFDAY

Early Chevy distributors used a ballast resistor to drop the voltage to the points after start up. That changed later, I don't remember when, to a resistance wire and both were connected to the "R" terminal on the solenoid. Run a wire, preferably 14 or 16 gauge, to the coil from the "R" post and that should solve your problem.

Ken,
The "R" terminal is only hot during crank, dead with the key "ON", and most of the newer Chevy starters no longer have the "R" terminal. Wiring instructions for non-point ignition tell us that the "R" terminal, if it's there, is not used. The instructions from Summit on replacement starters addresses the issues if you 1) have HEI/electronic ignition and an old starter or 2) are replacing an old starter on a points style distributor and need to keep that wire active - https://static.summitracing.com/glob...um-829100a.pdf

Hoss, it sounds like you may be cranking with no voltage to your coil, then as you release the key to "RUN/ON" your ignition goes "HOT" and it lights off as it's coasting off the starter. You could check by disconnecting the Battery connection at the starter, putting a volt meter on your +coil feed and putting the key to "START". If you happen to have the old "R" terminal starter then a second wire to your coil + should fix your starting problem, but you need to check the voltage on that "stock Pinto HOT wire" to be sure it's not reduced voltage for the old points system. No "R" terminal? How about Summit's relay fix, plus verifying your stock Pinto HOT wire voltage?

Originally Posted by rspears

Ken,
The "R" terminal is only hot during crank, dead with the key "ON", and most of the newer Chevy starters no longer have the "R" terminal. Wiring instructions for non-point ignition tell us that the "R" terminal, if it's there, is not used. The instructions from Summit on replacement starters addresses the issues if you 1) have HEI/electronic ignition and an old starter or 2) are replacing an old starter on a points style distributor and need to keep that wire active - https://static.summitracing.com/glob...um-829100a.pdf

Hoss, it sounds like you may be cranking with no voltage to your coil, then as you release the key to "RUN/ON" your ignition goes "HOT" and it lights off as it's coasting off the starter. You could check by disconnecting the Battery connection at the starter, putting a volt meter on your +coil feed and putting the key to "START". If you happen to have the old "R" terminal starter then a second wire to your coil + should fix your starting problem, but you need to check the voltage on that "stock Pinto HOT wire" to be sure it's not reduced voltage for the old points system. No "R" terminal? How about Summit's relay fix, plus verifying your stock Pinto HOT wire voltage?

yes .. it seems to do that ..

so i need to pull my starter and see if it has an (R) run terminal and hook my coil + to that ?

Originally Posted by rspears

Ken,
The "R" terminal is only hot during crank, dead with the key "ON", and most of the newer Chevy starters no longer have the "R" terminal. Wiring instructions for non-point ignition tell us that the "R" terminal, if it's there, is not used.

You're right, I don't know what I was thinking, must have been a senior moment.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe you can run a wire from the "S" terminal to the coil since it will be hot when the ignition switch is in the "run" position.

Originally Posted by HOSS429

so i need to pull my starter and see if it has an (R) run terminal and hook my coil + to that ?

NO, disregard that and look at post 1400

If you did indeed have a points ignition system in the Pinto and now want to go full 12 volts to the coil..
Just isolate the coil feed all the way into the ignition switch and replace the resistance wire with a new multi-strand primary wire. Bingo, no voltage drop from the resistance wire.
When cranking, battery voltage will drop no matter where you tap in. If your still using the Ford solenoid mounted on the apron, just add a connector wire from the starter feed side of the solenoid to the positive side of the coil and that'll bypass any voltage drop found under the dash. at least during the crank cycle. HTH

Hoss,
Just to be clear you need a full +12V to your coil during both "Crank" and "Run". You can easily verify that with a Voltmeter. There are a bunch of ways to accomplish what you need, but the need is really simple - 12V+ at your coil during crank, and then maintaining the +12V as your key returns to "RUN".

Hoss,
Here's a simple Pinto Ignition Wiring Diagram:
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pinto.jpg
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Note two wires to the Coil+, the yellow/black from the ignition plus a black from the amplifier. You'll find that the yellow/black goes to a connector, and is a black wire after. That black section after the connector is a resistor wire to drop running volts to about 9V. With your key "ON" you can check to be sure of your voltage before & after the connector. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by rspears

Hoss,
Here's a simple Pinto Ignition Wiring Diagram:
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Attachment 73924
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Note two wires to the Coil+, the yellow/black from the ignition plus a black from the amplifier. You'll find that the yellow/black goes to a connector, and is a black wire after. That black section after the connector is a resistor wire to drop running volts to about 9V. With your key "ON" you can check to be sure of your voltage before & after the connector. Hope this helps.

Roger, is the black wire from the amplifier a constant 12 volts or only present when cranking? If only energized only during cranking the black wire from the ign switch, which is a resistance wire, can be replaced with a regular wire of the same gauge.
I would think the black wire from the amplifier is energized only during cranking otherwise there would be a constant 12 volts at the "+" terminal of the coil.

Originally Posted by NTFDAY

Roger, is the black wire from the amplifier a constant 12 volts or only present when cranking? If only energized only during cranking the black wire from the ign switch, which is a resistance wire, can be replaced with a regular wire of the same gauge.
I would think the black wire from the amplifier is energized only during cranking otherwise there would be a constant 12 volts at the "+" terminal of the coil.

Yes, the black from the amplifier is hot only during cranking, and I believe that if Hoss just adds the black wire from the amplifier (or another source that's hot during crank) and then replaces the section of black wire from the connector to the coil with a piece of regular auto wiring like you say it'll fix his problem, but I'd want to verify voltages with a meter just to be sure, especially on a vehicle of this age that's had a lot of work through the years.

Originally Posted by rspears

Yes, the black from the amplifier is hot only during cranking, and I believe that if Hoss just replaces the section of black wire from the connector to the coil with a piece of regular auto wiring like you say it'll fix his problem, but I'd want to verify voltages with a meter just to be sure, especially on a vehicle of this age that's had a lot of work through the years.

Couldn't agree more, sure hope he gets it fixed.

So Hoss429, have you tackled that PinChevto starting problem yet?

no .. i dropped the steering column and found 2 wires that are hot when the switch is on .. i have not found the fuse wire yet .. i dont have a volt meter all i have is a hot idiot check test lite .. i drive it once a month or so i`m in no hurry .. i am in the market for a project car .. i want a 55 ford fairlane .. my birth year but i have not looked real hard .. i have had 2 over the last 40 years but did not keep them .. i have been helping the fellow who bought my mustang get it going .. the MSD system is giving us fits .. i told him to get an old style points dizzy and live with it ...in fact he just pulled up in my yard .. he cant get the points dizzy to fire either .. guess i`ll go over there for a while .. he is a fellow who just likes to own stuff .. he has a dozen cars that just sit around going to pot .. they all have dead batteries ,stinky gas in the tanks , they all sit outside in the weather and stay filthy .. i just in a moment of temporary insanity sold him all my stuff a few years ago .. he let me have the pinto back after he broke the rear end ..

Originally Posted by HOSS429

... i dont have a volt meter all i have is a hot idiot check test lite ..

A test light can tell you a lot, but I don't understand how anyone can mess with cars much without a basic Volt/Ohm meter. You can buy a good, basic multi-meter on Amazon or evilBay for less than $20!! I worked for years with a little RadioShack meter that I think I paid less than $10 and Harbor Freight often gives them away with any purchase! Seriously? Best of luck with your trouble shooting. I hope you and your test light figure out your problems.