Thread: Wind power? Anybody skeptical?

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Originally Posted by techinspector1

Richard, in my opinion, you need to step back and examine your quality of life. Going through the winter with the thermostat set on 58 and wearing heavy clothes in the house is not my idea of ideal. I lived a short time in Wisconsin under those conditions and know what it's like. MISERABLE. If I were you, I'd be taking a look at relocating to a more moderate climate so I could enjoy life more. You probably have a well paying job and family in the area, but you have to balance that with what it's costing you to be miserable. Your mental health is at stake.

You know the old saying of being stuck between a rock and a hard spot, that’s where I’m at now. 13 years ago my previous house was new when we bought it, it had 5 years to go on the mortgage, I had to retire and thought it would be nice living in the country. I did like a lot of people who got in over their head but I thought if we conserved and sold a car each year we would be ok, as I had a pretty good collection. Then several things went against us, propane was .79 per gallon at the time, which wasn’t bad. We went from a house that was new when we bought it to an older house. At first I would kid about it being a money pit like the movie but that wasn’t funny after things kept going wrong. The house needs a new roof that I can’t afford; I can’t sell the house without a new roof. It was a mistake getting in over my head but it’s like telling a person who is over weight (you need to loose some weight) or an alcoholic (just stop drinking). If (small word but can be used for the biggest meaning’s) If I could get some of my project cars fixed up a little to go with the original plan, if I could physically stay well enough to do that. We have enough trees, if I could sell the wood that would help. Wood is as high as other sources of heat today. If we could hold on until we could get a new roof we would be ok. Then if I had any more time left in my life I would join the seniors in one of the warm states for sure. I use to tell my wife if I were homeless, I would be homeless in a warm state. Along with the other things that had to be fixed or replaced was the huge windows, we did good by replacing them in the beginning, and at 58 degree’s with the sun coming through the big windows it feels pretty good.

There are people a lot worst off then me that had to give up their homes, I’m not throwing in the towel yet, knock on a big piece of wood. I had a good paying job but it was at the expense of my body to many broken bones, and to many surgeries. I don’t feel sorry for myself, just the other night I watched a group of guys, and a lady putting up cell phone towers, and repairing them. A young guy fell over 100 feet to his death, times are tough now but if I can hold on a little longer we will be ok.

My wife just reminded me of why I got here in the first place it is a beautiful place. We have seen newborn baby deer, in the weeds a foot in front of us looking at us, we saw a baby Falcon, and we have seen Red Fox, Silver Fox. When the grandkids come over, they take turns driving down the long driveway. I saw a Yellow Belly Sap Sucker. Blue birds, Orioles, we have wild Turkeys walking by our house I’ve counted 30 at one time. We have black berries, black raspberries. We live in Indiana but when you get inside our property it looks like it could be someplace in Colorado especially when the tall pines are covered with snow. I guess if you look at it one way it’s terrible, or the other way it’s beautiful. Like the glass is it half empty, or half full?

I guess we all should look at what we have and be thankful because it always could be worst!!

Kind of got off the windmill theory but I feel better after techinspector1 replying to me about my complaining.

Richard

Richard
Sounds absolutely beautiful. Worth perservering and getting those projects done! One car would surely pay for a new roof, and maybe for the short term a pellet stove would be a warm treat in one room, that you use the most. Crank up the heat there, and who cares if the rest of the place is 50 degrees! We do this here as well! We were seduced into using natural gas for heating systems, because of the low cost, then California deregulated the power industry, and electricity doubled over night. But what the papers didn't focus on, was that natural gas quadropled! Our gas bill went from 75.00 dollars a month to around 350-400. My wife freaked. Started turning everything off, thought the new addition was killing us with energy costs, I took out an old bill and looked at our actual gas consumption, vs. a new one, we were only using about 15-20% more energy, for 1500 more square feet! I told her it was the prices that went up, not us. But it still leaves us in the same position, that energy bills are going up, and we already have an energy efficient house, so our only alternatives are sell and buy another place, which really won't solve anything, or take the bull by the horns and plan to take on the real problem, the power company! So that is why we are considering solar. We can run space heaters in most rooms, thus using less natural gas, which is much more expensive here than electricity. When we can afford it, we can put a solar set up on the garage roof which has the perfect sun exposure.
Arguments we hear, over and over, here are valid and will not change, but if I can eliminate my dependence from the the utility company, even at a large initial cost, it will pay off as energy prices increase, and these same systems also increase in price. It's sort of like spending 20k on a hybrid to lower your monthly gas bill from 400 to 150. Doesn't seem to help when you calculate how long it will take to make up the difference in gas cost versus the 20k, but in five years the car will be paid off, and my consumption will stay lower, and I'll still need a new car anyway, so it works for me. Just my thoughts.

Steve, we use the dining room most of the time, it is pretty big and we have everything we need, and a bathroom close by. We have a TV, computer, couch, chair, dining room table, and desk; bar stools at the counter it’s a comfortable room. The house is a 100-foot long ranch with 9-foot ceilings and 12-foot openings in the living, and dining room it takes a lot to heat it. The good thing is each room has a door to close off. As long as we keep the house warm enough as not to do any damage to the drywall I think we are ok. The big windows let a lot of heat in on sunny days. Last year we use space heaters the 110 type and it was really costly for electricity. We have a large fireplace but even with the glass doors the room heat from the furnace goes up unless you turn them off.

If I can only drag myself out to the garage to do a little to a car at a time it would sure help.

Richard

Ceiling fans are good for redirecting hot air back down, the slower speeds don't make it too drafty. I have the same problem, our living room is open to the kitchen and dining area, but in the livingroom area we have open two story space that is 22 ft high at the peak. Our fire place heat goes straight up! We put a ceiling fan up there to blow all the heat back down, but the bugger is unbalanced and starts to swing dangerously on medium or high! We actually need to hire someone to come in and balance it, because there is no easy way to get to it, other than scafolding.

"..we use the dining room most of the time...The house is a 100-foot long ranch with 9-foot ceilings and 12-foot openings in the living, and dining room it takes a lot to heat it. The good thing is each room has a door to close off...

Richard[/QUOTE]


Remember what it was like when we were kids?
We lived in a big old farmhouse and for all of the years we lived there I don't ever remember going either upstairs or into the "parlor" in the winter. I remember it had leaded glass french doors that my mother covered with a quilt when it got cold. We lived in the kitchen and living room. I used to love sleeping behind the old coal stove. I also remember breaking the ice in the wash basin in the morning and running through the snow only to sit on the cold wooden seat in the out house.
I know the older I get the softer I grow. But I also know we may all have to get used to doing it all again. (I wonder how many "traditional" rodders would really want to go back to those "good old days").
I think I can't live without A/C in the shop but I know it has got to stop sometime.
For whatever the reason, environmental, political, or beuracratic idiocy, we will never see the last 30 years again. Hot rodders, by our very nature, are ingenious. We need to ply that ingenuity toward making ours more existence than subsistence.
John

Steve, I know what you are talking about with the fireplace, our family room is opened all the way up. I put a big fan up in the center of the room, sometimes, as I would be lying on the couch. I would look up at that thing spinning over my head but I know the guy who put it up. I tell my wife if it falls I’ll put it back as soon as I get out of recovery.

I hope we didn't get to far off track with windmills, if so I'll stop.

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RICHARD

Remember what it was like when we were kids?
We lived in a big old farmhouse and for all of the years we lived there I don't ever remember going either upstairs or into the "parlor" in the winter. I remember it had leaded glass french doors that my mother covered with a quilt when it got cold. We lived in the kitchen and living room. I used to love sleeping behind the old coal stove. I also remember breaking the ice in the wash basin in the morning and running through the snow only to sit on the cold wooden seat in the out house.
I know the older I get the softer I grow. But I also know we may all have to get used to doing it all again. (I wonder how many "traditional" rodders would really want to go back to those "good old days").
I think I can't live without A/C in the shop but I know it has got to stop sometime.
For whatever the reason, environmental, political, or beuracratic idiocy, we will never see the last 30 years again. Hot rodders, by our very nature, are ingenious. We need to ply that ingenuity toward making ours more existence than subsistence.
John[/QUOTE]

41willys, That sounded like my house, we had a blanket to keep the heat from the coal stove in the dining room, the older kids were the ones closest to the stove. The living room was very seldom used to cold. At night the bed was ice cold but after awhile the body heat would warm it up.

Ok I’ll admit only certain things were good back in the good old days. I painted my first car in the back yard 55 Chevy 2dr. ht. Now I don't go in the garage if it's to hot, to cold, or I'm too tired. Back in the good old days I changed a water pump on the side of the road 65 GTO in 1967 after getting off work at Ford motor company at 1:00 a.m. over 100 miles down the road with a small crescent wrench and a screw driver, and a pair of pliers. The sun was coming up when I finished, today I wouldn't think about it unless it was on the lift. I was just telling my wife this morning how fast this year is going by. Then I said it sure didn’t go this fast When I was in the Army, but I liked that period of time.

Richard

Originally Posted by stovens

Ceiling fans are good for redirecting hot air back down, the slower speeds don't make it too drafty. I have the same problem, our living room is open to the kitchen and dining area, but in the livingroom area we have open two story space that is 22 ft high at the peak. Our fire place heat goes straight up! We put a ceiling fan up there to blow all the heat back down, but the bugger is unbalanced and starts to swing dangerously on medium or high! We actually need to hire someone to come in and balance it, because there is no easy way to get to it, other than scafolding.

I put one in a similar cathedral ceiling. We went from 12 cords of wood to 10 and the house was noticeably warmer.

Bottom line is while work is being done on all kinds of alternative energy that may work, for now we have to use what we know works. It's a no-brainer that we have to "drill here, drill now and pay less." Not too hard to figure out that one. The problem is the clowns in Washington who are supposed to be working for us, but are getting money from the Global Warming, Save the Owels, Squirrels, Caribou and who knows what nuts that are willing to sacrifice us.

Hydrogen works. Remember the Hindenburg. Wind works, too, if you have a good tail wind!

Time to gather up a load of tar and feathers and visit Washington, DC.

Actually, the majority of Congress is ready to pass energy bills,it's the house and senate leadership that won't let it come up for a vote. While I agree with more drilling, how many new wells do we need when not a single new refinery has been built in nearly thirty years? We've already ignored several wake up calls, is it time yet? Anything that cuts our dependency on oil,regardless of where it comes from is a good thing,but no one source like wind power is going to be the answer.While each individual can do a little to conserve,it's going to take a mandate from our government to affect any real changes.Now that seems like mission impossible, in reality there's only two people to speak to, our wonderful presidential candidates. They want your vote,let them know what you want. Hank

We are the consumer and as such we have the power to change the world. But if it is an inconvenience we just sit back and expect some legislation to protect our standard of living.
Sure nobody wants to loose their home but hey, I lost mine after Katrina and I survived just fine. Simplify your life, stay home and get to know your neighbors.
I think we need a major shift in attitude, not just more holes poked in the ground. We really need to stop being energy sluts more than we need new sources imho.

South Dakota (Union County)just got voter approval for a new refinery.The tree huggers,etc.say they will fight it to the bitter end.

America Wake UP or suffer the cosequences.JMO

Yup, looks like the Tree Huggers will be headed back to the Black Hills to protect the trees from us environment destroying snowmobilers!!!!!

Standard policy in the Black Hills while snowmobiling is that if you hit a tree with a Tree Hugger standing in front of it to protect it you'll recieve free repairs!!!!!

Hitting one of them while they are in an open area and running for their life will entitle you to a free weekend's lodging at one of the resorts.



Anyway, with the prospect of lots of good paying jobs in both the constructing and operating of a refinery up here in the poverty belt, the tree huggers were doomed before they started!!!!

So, in South Dakota the score is:

Tree Huggers-------0
Common Sense-----1

I think you will find most people who consider themselves environmentalists, are already conserving resources and using energy saving devices. I have two bachelor degrees in science and believe in global warming. I would like to see some wilderness areas preserved for future generations. That being said, I guess you could call me a tree hugger. I also believe in practicality and common sense. I believe some environmental policy has been formed based on the gut reaction of people with no scientific background what so ever, that unfortunately has turned environmentalism into a shorter form of emotionalmentalism. This is frustrating. Because now if you intelligently state an argument why not to destroy an area for mining or fuel exploration, your labeled "tree hugger" and thrown into a catagory of imbeciles who haven't a clue what they are talking about.
Oil drilling in South Dakota makes sense. The idea of becoming less dependent on the middle east is also smart. But more than that, reducing our own usage of energy is common sense. If your capable of taking yourself off the grid, or reducing your own personal consumption, then you should do it. It's easy to sit here day after day and expect someone else to bail us out, when in fact the easiest place to start change is at home.
I too remember cold winter nights on Grandma's farm where we were packed into a side bedroom with no heat under 8 blankets, where there was ice on the single pane windows. I remeber those first 20 minutes of not moving an inch because the blankets around you were freezing, and seeing the fog of my breath rise in the moon light. I was lucky that we were only there for a few weeks at a time, but, I learned an important lesson, that we were healthy, survived and were generally happy there too. We worked hard outside with the land and didn't need to go to a gym at the end of a work day to stay in shape! We also never worried about cholesterol from those thick slices of bacon and farm fresh eggs in the 18 inch cast iron skillet of the stove!
The point is we have become a soft Nation. We outsource labor to others, because we think it's beneath us, yet, some amongst us are third generation welfare recipients, who would no more lift a finger to work than you or I would put a go cart engine in our hot rod! We provide health care to the illegal aliens, with the message that if you can make it here to deliver your baby then it will be a legal citizen. We'll then provide you with whatever you need to keep that baby healthy. We'll also pay you under the table to clean our houses, work our farms, and maintain our gardens, but we'll bitch about tha fact that your here, not paying into the system and getting benefits that people who do pay in the system can't get!
It's messed up!
Sorry way off track here!
Point is nothing is black and white, but most of us are capable of lowering our energy consumption, and supplementing it with systems that will reduce our global needs.
Soo go for it... let the Tree hugger attacks begin!

Steve I'll be the first to admit we have been spoiled with all the conveniences we now enjoy.And personally I hate to go to any thing that will interfere with that luxury,but the truth of the matter is we have some major problems in our society that are not going to fix themselves.It seems that when one group starts to attack the problems ,we have another that starts up to block it.When that happens nothing gets done and the problem gets worse.

I know about the quilts,feather beds,fireplaces,kerosene lamps,out door 2 holers,and working the land with manual labor,etc.We were poor as the poorest moving from farm to farm share cropping and getting a limited education.I left that environment as soon as I realized I had to do myself better.

I to went on to get a Mfg.Engineering Degree thanks to IBM.and worked my butt off to get to where I could provide a good life for my family.

I am now enjoying the benefits of that effort and to see a society as we now see it greives me.We as a society cannot work together any more.World War II set an example for us as a Nation working together.Now all we see is Kill that Bill,Defeat that Bill,and it goes on and on.

I would like to see the environment cleaned up,but we have to realize we are not the only Country contributing and again we need to work together.I get sick to my stomach when I go back to my native Tn. and see what is happening to the Great Smokey Mtns. the worst polluted area in Tn.
'
They say a problem don't get fixed until it gets worse,I think we're there on many issues.I'll get down now.