Thread: Are We Really That Stupid???????

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Originally Posted by stovens

...Yet what bugs me, is every time oil goes up per barrel, gas prices go up the same day. Yet when it goes down, the reciprical doesn't happen so fast....:

They have to sell off the refined product they bought at higher prices before the price goes down. However reciprocity does not apparently apply here and they are happy to value any oil stock in hand at the higher value. I don't like it maybe but I think that's simple capitalism in action.

Kitz

You're right. Most gas stations are relatively small operations. The gas they are selling today is accumulating the cash to buy the next load. Some places limit the retail markup to 10 cents per gallon or less. Usually, a station is informed of the price changes far in advance. If the station owner gets told that his next load is going to be 5 cents higher, he immediately goes into a panic trying to raise the cash for the next load....so he raises prices. Think about a little guy owner getting a 5000 gallon load he has to pay $4 a gallon for....usually within 10 days. Kitz is right, when the price goes down, he is sitting on $4 gas but his next load is going to be cheaper so he gets a profit. With credit card fees and such, a true gas station is a rare animal since there is not much money in it.

7-11 stores used to (in the 1980's) generate $50 a day in profit....a fantastically high number (not sure what they generate anymore corrected for inflation). I would be surprised if a small gas station generates that much in today's dollars. They gotta sell air fresheners, beer, porno,
and the other good stuff to pay the overhead. At $50 a day profit times 365 days a year times 12000 stores, 7-11 made 219 million that year!! OOPS, excessive profits, let's let the government take it away and give to the tree foundation!!!

mike in tucson

[QUOTE=Bob Parmenter]This is becoming one of those endless loop discussions my friend (jeez now I'm starting to sound like one of your senators )

Those so called "record" profits still only work out to about 10 cents on the dollar, which for an industrial company is roughly average. It's just that they handle a LOT of dollars. Anyone who has ever run their own business can appreciate how non exciting a 10% net profit is.

You have to figure a typical bussiness owners profit of 10% of 5 grand is not near as pretty as an oil companies 10% of 100 million. I would love 10% of the 100 MIL. Face it we are being over charged no matter how subliminally anyone tries to convince me we are not.

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

3. If you think GWB is the worst you are too young to remember the Carter years of international humiliation, high interest rates and many stupid policies.

Best Wishes for Higher Interest, Taxes and Probably Higher Gas Prices,
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Ya know what Don? I'd take a whole lot of "internation humiliation instead of all the wasted lives in Iraq and Afghanistan.... Lives lost for lies... plain and simple....

Is "international humiliation" better or worse then the international hatred of the US and it's bully of the block policy that we have to endure now????

Not defending Carter, he was an idiot... Though during the Carter years of high interest I was fortunate to be in a position to have a bit of $$$$ that grew well with the high interest.....

Bush is an idiot, pure and simple.... Can't think of a single advancement in diplomacy in the last 8 years... Just lots of dead Americans and and Administration so steeped in lies, deceptions, and scandel that Nixon and his gang look like chior boys in comparison..... Heck, another LBJ and "the great society" would be a welcome relief.....

As for Uncle Bob's post, if I had to settle for 10 cents return for every dollar spent, I'd have been out of business years ago... The only reason the profits are in the billions is because us sheep, lemmings, or whatever term you choose just buy so dang much fossil fuel the oil companies couldn't spend it fast enough to get down to a break even financial position.....

Anyway, let's clutter the whole dang world with oil wells and totally eliminate the incentive to develp alternatives...... Heck, it's the next generations problem anyway.....

I agree with Dave that our salvation is going to be developing alternative energy sources. We've made some inroads with hybrid cars and solar and wind power, but we really need to step up the pace if we are going to flourish as we have in past years.

We will still continue to buy gas for stuff that can't easily be retrofitted (like our hot rods ) but if our day to day demand for most normal needs gets assisted by alternative means, it will help out tremendously.

Don

Originally Posted by mooneye777

I would love 10% of the 100 MIL. Face it we are being over charged no matter how subliminally anyone tries to convince me we are not.

My guess would be you've never run a business of any substance. Would you also want the operating expenses and risk of a 100 mil business? There're two sides to every ledger. Did you have the same feeling about the oil companies in the late '80s and early '90s when they were operating at a loss, going bankrupt as Texaco did? Just asking.......

As for believing in alternatives, there's absolutely nothing preventing anyone from adopting any other energy source today than gasoline. Many of the wishful thinking technologies are even supported by tax dollars extorted from those of us who are in the half of the population that still pays federal tax, and even with those subsidies I bet you'd change your mind in a hot hurry if you tried to switch to one of those at it's actual cost. Government will never "create", "invent", or "dream up" a viable alternative, only when a genuinely economically competitive alternative not requiring subsidy shows up will gasoline be replaced. Otherwise, if you believe in that stuff you don't realize you're being conned.......................even though you (whoever you are) believe that the evil oil companies are conning you.

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

I had an informal debate with an otherwise nice guy I know and he wanted a "Manhattan Project" to convert to "Clean Energy"; my reply was that we already had a Manhattan Project and the result was nuclear energy. Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

PRICELESS!!!!

Sure, I said electric cars and electrolysis for hydrogen are OK but as Don and Dave both said we need to have a transition plan. So far only Paris Hilton is in favor of compromise to develop all forms of energy, although I think McCain also said that. I have been sensitized by contact with idealistic undergraduates who button hole me on campus who only want "Clean Energy", no nuclear, no coal, no petroleum, nothing but wind and solar power and it is not here yet! Sadly there is very little compromising in Congress, especially with the die hard Environmentalists. So yeah, let's develop all forms of energy. Hey I swapped out a 2.73 ratio ring gear from a '74 Maverick from the previous "gas shortage warning" for a 3.55 ratio with an R700 OD to get both low gear and OD with a more modern set up, so yes the Auto Mfgrs. fumbled the opportunity for fuel efficiency over and over. I just think at this point in time/history it is very foolish to hold out for an idealistic set of power sources which are not here yet when winter is coming and fuel oil will be needed as well as potential heating gas for Europe now coming through a valve in Georgia. How about that money that is going out of the country for oil when we have it right here. As Bob said, we are going around and around here and as Don said apparently we are not going to change any minds so I will just hide in the garage until it is too cold and then hope Santa Claus will bring me a COLA for next year's fixed income. One ray of hope is that the birth rate in the US was the highest in a long time and maybe this secondary baby boom will save Soc. Security to pay for the earlier baby boom. Dave if you need some humiliation check with a guy named Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD, he can really dish it out! I agree it's only words but it reminds me of the PM of Britain coming back from a meeting with Hitler in 1940 promising "Peace in our time!" Sadly I do think there are some folks out there beyond much hope of diplomacy and if they get the upper hand we will be more glad than ever about the protection of two oceans, but then are there threats within? Sure we should negotiate, but while we talk they are probably purifying more U-235? What was Pres. Reagan's phrase, "Trust but Verify" or something like that? Maybe the garage is the safest place, it's wood and will burn quickly! Now back to that blue oval with the unnamed V8.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Well said Don and the PM you refer to as you probably already know was Neville Chamberlain. Had it not been for Churchhill and FDR we'd most likely be speaking German. I, for one, have no intention of speaking "Farsi" or any other towel head language.

Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD, I believe he's with Al Qaeda.... Not Iraq... Nothing, absolutely nothing can justify the loss of American lives and Iraqi civilians in Iraq. The war should be with the bad guys, not Iraq.... Where is the "oil profits will pay for the war" guy now???? We haven't won anything in Afghanistan and now have no troops to send there cuz Cowboy George is too busy fighting an unwinnable war in Iraq....

I'm no idealist, doubt anything could ever totally replace gasoline. Now if we were to drill in this country and all that oil stayed in this country and didn't just get sold on the world market freeing up more places to drill would be fine, along with the oil rights we have now that don't have any new derricks showing up.... Well, other then North Dakota.....a number of folks up there have taking up raising oil instead of wheat and are quite wealty now....

Better get the draft going again if "the old white haired guy" gets in, and we can't afford the "gentlemen from Illinois". Think we're just flat screwed. This archaic two party system where all the major players are bought and paid for by special interest is going to be our downfall.... We have met the enemy, and it is us!!!!

very well said Dave.

I think we are all in for a ride whoever wins the election. Remember Dave the only difference between Obama and Osama is just a little bs.

Kitz

We should save this topic until winter comes so that the CHR members that live in the cold climates could heat their houses/shops with the heat that the discussion generates!! People could post messages with outlandish theories and weird political views (both directions), the members could read those posts and get really hot....we could help the energy crisis but we sure as heck would add to global warming...

mike in tucson

Originally Posted by kitz

I think we are all in for a ride whoever wins the election. Remember Dave the only difference between Obama and Osama is just a little bs.

Kitz

Ditto,on that Kitz.

As we see all the under developed countries start to show their hands after being proped up by the USA Govt.and Our Buisnesses,they two want a bigger piece of the action.

Rough roads ahead regardless as to who goes in the White House.
My sympathy goes out to the present and future working class of people that have made this country what it is only to see it become a battered society.

Sounds a bit negative but just my Senior observation.

Got this as an email from a friend this morning, seems to sum it all up
THIS IS ALSO THE STORY OF OUR ENTIRE
UNITED STATES CONGRESS MENTALITY
________________________________________
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate
the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior
management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering,
while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting
company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat,
while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another
loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally
reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and
1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the
boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality
First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There
was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra
vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed
to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled
into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe,
sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment.
The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish
the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all
canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was
out-sourced to India .

Sadly, the End.

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years
moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make
money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US .
The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses.

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

The American auto industry is a dying business. It all started in 1938 when GM caved in to union pressure and has continued to decline. In the 1960'sthe American auto industry was so arrogant, they ignored the new wave of "foreign" cars and allowed the Japanese to establish a beachhead, especially in California. US Auto was building crap and people liked the reliable Japanese cars...and they got pretty good mileage since they had little engines.

Now we are seeing third generations of families own foreign cars.... just like the old days, Dad owned a Buick made son want a Buick, the younger set rode in their parents car and their grand parents car and both were Asian. Why would they consider anything else?

Also, the American auto industry knowledge base has either retired and moved to Arizona and Florida to spend their retirement in an Indian casino OR the younger talent has jumped ship to work for the Asian manufacturers.... in California, many Japanese cars are designed by Americans with talent. Even if the industry tried to revive, the knowledge base is so decimated, it could not support a American auto industry boom.

Personally, I do not own or drive foreign cars. Never will. I am solidly pro American brand.....but I am also a dying breed.

mike in tucson