Thread: Chrysler, GM discuss merger, acquisition

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Overpaid execs aren't the problem, the problem lies with the idiots who put them in that position with that kind of contract and offered the huge payoffs as an incentive to attract the kind of CEO they wanted.... The man just took a job and for whatever reasons failed at it...and now we should demand repayment from the guy who agreed to the terms of the contract????? Hmmmm. Who hired them? Who made such a ridiculous contract? Perhaps we should look beyond the CEO's? Unless you own the place you're nothing but hired help and as with all of us only wanted to negotiate the best deal they could get... The CEO works for the board of directors and the share holders and they are the ones who hired the CEO and gave him such a lucrative contract. If pointing fingers and casting blame is the game, should try to aim it at the guilty party (or parties) and not just the hired help...... Just another case of finding a scapegoat rather then holding someone accountable that actually created the problem..... and even if they got all the money back they paid the CEO's, it wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket.

Thanks for the explanation Uncle Bob!

Well there are plenty of explanations out there such as:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiEWCnpNnBQ&NR=1

However the real problem is how to get out of the mess with an impending situation of reinforcement by the same folks who started this mess to be in a position to do more. My only solution is to hunker down for two whole years and hope there will be a "correction" at the mid-term election. One interesting development is that gas is now $2.97/gallon here! A suggestion that works for me is to play 1940s music all the time and just try to remember that General Eisenhower will take care of everything!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Well there are plenty of explanations out there such as:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiEWCnpNnBQ&NR=1

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Yeah, blame the other party....geez... Don't worry about a solution, let alone this antiquated two party system POSSIBLY getting beyond politics and actually give a hoot about the people that sent them there!!!! If everyone would spend half the time looking for a solution that they spend looking for a scapegoat.......we probably wouldn't have had a problem..... But when the idiots in DC spend all their time pointing fingers and playing CYA games, nothing will change, absolutely nothing.

Democrat, Republican, Independant or whatever!!!!! Vote every incumbant OUT of office.....let them know exactly what we think of their inattentiveness. What really amazes me is the number of voters who actually fall for this "the other party done it" crap rather then hold their elected officials REGARDLESS OF PARTY AFFILITATION accountable for their actions....or lack of them in this case. Politics caused this mess, how in the heck could you possibly expect them to resolve it?????? Change??? You want change??? Vote out every dang incumbant that is in there now!!!!! The "experienced" ones are the ones who either ignored or were too dumb too see this debacle coming...and you can say that I should be in favor of "experienced" politicians??????? Yeah, right......

OK Dave what is the solution? I am putting what few chips I have on my Cong. Cantor who at least has real experience and training in the mortgage business but since he will be in the minority to Madame Pelosi's crew I can only hope he is in there for the mid-term correction. Dave you are correct that mistakes were made by both parties but you do not tell us the solution either! I favor the use of arithmetic but the "victum game" seems to trump common sense and arithmetic!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

As per usual Bob, your analogy of the situation is pretty much spot on. I did find it interesting though that you refrained from laying blame on a specific congress person. IMHO there is plenty of blame to go around, but in the last two years things could have been turned around except for the fact that the core constituency of those in power would have squealed like a stuck pig.

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

OK Dave what is the solution? I am putting what few chips I have on my Cong. Cantor who at least has real experience and training in the mortgage business but since he will be in the minority to Madame Pelosi's crew I can only hope he is in there for the mid-term correction. Dave you are correct that mistakes were made by both parties but you do not tell us the solution either!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I told you the solution... Vote out all the incumbants and start over. Put together a panel of Warren Buffett, Ross Perot, and a bunch of other GENUINE SUCCESSFUL buisness types and charge them with coming up with the solution.....

Geez Don.....Our government is so far removed from what the founding fathers wanted it's a joke.... A government of the people, for the people???? Even the gallup poll showed 56% (others were higher) to be AGAINST Bush's bailout plan----yet both houses passed it in record time... Hardly a representative government....

Experienced politicians created, or at least failed to prevent the present situation..... and the voters will re-elect the same bunch of dummies and expect them to come up with a solution..... Wait for the mid-term elections???? Many families won't survive til then... Two more years of DDSS and there won't be any solution possible, it will be too late..

My vote for President??? None of the above.... It doesn't matter, both of them are clueless..... Ron Paul might work.... Lock up the borders, followed by a few years of isolationist politics to resolve our own problems and let the rest of the world work on theirs.....

It probably doesn't matter, if nobody learns their lesson from this fiasco, soon won't be anything left to govern....

So when the bailout is done, here's what's left:

The new name for the US will be SSA, Socialist States of America\

The Senate and House will become the House of Commons and the House of Lords

National Health Care for most, at least the ones who can't spend $25K or more per year on private insurance.

Oh well, it (democracy) was a good run while it lasted........

RIP Democracy, greed killed it.

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy and he is us"

We gripe about sending all of our jobs and money to China yet we buy cheap Chinese crap at Harbor Freight.

We bitch about our government yet we send the same old crook back year after year.

We whine about foreign cars taking over but some of us buy them.

We are the fault, we allow this stuff to happen. We made it acceptable to cheat, lie, steal, and suck off the government's teat. We did it. Until "we" get tired of the situation and come together as a nation, it will continue.

We are the enemy.

Originally Posted by robot

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy and he is us"

We gripe about sending all of our jobs and money to China yet we buy cheap Chinese crap at Harbor Freight.

We bitch about our government yet we send the same old crook back year after year.

We whine about foreign cars taking over but some of us buy them.

We are the fault, we allow this stuff to happen. We made it acceptable to cheat, lie, steal, and suck off the government's teat. We did it. Until "we" get tired of the situation and come together as a nation, it will continue.

We are the enemy.

There ya go, Robot!!!!! Both profoundly correct, and painfully accurate.....

It's true, we are a bunch of hipocrits ( < spelling? ) . Self government will not work without self control. I think this country could be in much better shape if we would think about helping our neighbor out instead fattening our wallet and forgetting about our neighbor.

i belive that if we isolated ourselves for a good DECADE and worried about US , and not other people. so and so had an earthquake, ok? why is that ALWAYS our problem. we are BROKE yet we keep spending milions, billions? in overeas aid to countrys who are worthless to begin with? we need to isolate ourselves start building what we need right the hell here, our cars our kids toys <lead free imagine that!?> grow our own foods and take care of AMERICA we need to help US , we have the money to send millions, billions? overseas to other countrys but we can barley keep all of us fed & sheltered and employed? WHAT THE HELL. and it doesnt help that a good majority of my generation havent been taught diddley squat about the us constituion in school or the bill of rights, therefore when stuff starts getting taken away they do not resist because they didnt know they had it anyway. my generation is completley worthless IMHO at least a good part of them are to busy smoking pot, playing video games, listening to udderly FOUL music, on there cell phones texting, they need to pull their heads out of their asses and look at what is going on in the country today. i still whole heartedly agee with JFK ,
"ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" millitary services, public serivice i.e. fireman and police mailman etc, volunteering in shelters whatever it be. but mainly take care of the govt not the other way around. by that i mean elect those who would do best, not those who make you feel good.

also my one of my all time favorite passages to live by, from our declaration of independence. wow a kid knows what that is?

" That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

folks its as simple as this,

"if you have the ability to take action, you have the responsibiliy to take action" .........SCOOTER

well either way it looks like the world economy is looking up the barrel of a loaded gun. While us on the bottom of the order wonder where our next $ is coming from. Ah well it will be interesting times.

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Yeah, blame the other party....geez... Don't worry about a solution, let alone this antiquated two party system POSSIBLY getting beyond politics and actually give a hoot about the people that sent them there!!!! If everyone would spend half the time looking for a solution that they spend looking for a scapegoat.......we probably wouldn't have had a problem..... But when the idiots in DC spend all their time pointing fingers and playing CYA games, nothing will change, absolutely nothing.

I think you need to cut cuzin' Don some slack Dave, first there's nothing in that video that isn't supported by factual reporting. And second, shouldn't we be concerned about whether all that's reported is in fact fully factual so that we don't end up with inequality of justice?

A couple cases in point. Two years ago we endured about three weeks of repetitive reporting about a Florida congressman who sent salatious text messages to some young congressional paige. I personally find that behavior absolutely reprehensible, and agree that the guy deserved the swift ousting that his party gave him, and the rejection of the voters in his community. I think it instructional though that as disgusting as his behavior was, it wasn't illegal, and other than being a beacon of cultural disorder, it did no harm to the general citizenry of this country. So it raises the question; why, if those legal actions that "only" rose to the level of civil loathing, with limited harm, deserved that much attention in the media and the number of verbal rantings by his colleagues. Why isn't there at least the same amount of anger, disgust, outrage, and deservedly more in regard to Sen. Dodd's actions noted above? What form of selective ethics finds text messages by the member of one party wholey punishable while at least apparent bribery, collusion, and racketeering by the member of another party acceptible. We didn't even see 3 days of analysis of Dodd's actions regarding subprime mortgages, much less three weeks.

Item two; Again two years ago we endured several weeks of front page "news" and editorial page bombast, along with television "news" leads regarding the supposed racial slur "macaca" by a Virginia Senator. If we could turn back the clock and poll 1000 people before they were influenced by the almighty media machine, ask them what the word "macaca" meant, I'd bet out of that thousand sample you'd MAYBE get one or two who thought it was a racial slur, and that would only be by result of some rule of numbers of respondants. Most would have either likely have answered "I have no idea" or "sounds like a made up word to me". But no, we were propagandized that it was a racial attack. Now maybe there were other reasons to throw that Senator out of office, but if there were, wouldn't it have been "fair" to bring those reasons up rather than some fabricated dismay? Again, he did nothing illegal, not even in any wildest stretch, at worst it was distasteful and stupid. On the other hand, Representative Frank of Mass. repeatedly defended the institutions of Fannie and Freddie, as late as June of this year saying they were sound. His financial connections are less obvious than those of Dodd so a reasonable argument could be made that he wasn't doing it from a criminal perspective. But there's strong evidence that he lacks the vision, intelligence, or discerning skills to make good judgements regarding the fiscal stability of organizations that he has oversight obligation for. At a minimum he should be fired from his committee chairmanship.

In both cases, Dodd and Frank, have paid no political or ethical price for their obvious (to some of us anyway) incompetence, and possible (probable?) illegal actions. Yet the same people who will blythely accept their behavior, laud them at news conferences for sheparding a "successful rescue plan", rant mightily about the behavior of private sector business people who haven't been proven to have done anything illegal, but may be guilty of stupid.

As you know I fundamentally agree with you that "throwing the bums out" on election day is the best solution (though criminal prosecution for some should follow), but the above self evident biases (and many others) are examples of a moral bankruptsy that precludes the election process from being effective.

Doesn't matter if it's all 100% factual Uncle Bob.... Been doin' the blame game crap and it doesn't accomplish anything....too late for that, time to do something....Doesn't matter who got us here.

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Doesn't matter if it's all 100% factual Uncle Bob.... Been doin' the blame game crap and it doesn't accomplish anything....too late for that, time to do something....Doesn't matter who got us here.

As a former employer I never considered an accurate, honest performance evaluation as a "blame game", rather a useful tool for decision making.

I think I see another new year's resolution coming.............