Hot rod forums under attack!

[mrmustang]

Boy and girls, let's keep this one strictly on topic so I do not have to shut it down. Without naming names, the petty bickering as seen above is really just that. Think about it before you post further to this thread.



Bill S.

[Itoldyouso]

Sorry Uncle Bill, just had to air the other side of that story out of fairness.

BTW Centerline, not afraid to tell you my user name, it was Donsrods.

Don

[Dave Severson]

If he wants to tell me what his screen name was over there I can easily find out for you. I doubt he'll fess up to what it was though.

Well, Don stated his reasons for leaving, that's good enough for me!!! Never have had nor do I ever expect to have any reason to doubt Don...... He's a Hot Rodder and a builder, does high quality work, and treats everyone on this forum fairly and with respect.....

[Itoldyouso]

Ok Dave, the check is in the mail.

Thanks, Bud.

Upon reflection, I got a little over the top on this one, and apologize to all concerned. I let my personal feelings about that individual hijack what Centerline was trying to do, which was alert us to the potential for censorship in our forums. Had a tough day at work today and vented a little more than I shoulda. Now I think I will go kick the cat.

Don

[lightninrodman]

Main thing is what I said before, when someone or a group of individuals present their dislike of a companies product and attempt to make it look like facts rather then opinions a lawsuit is always a possiblity..... The final outcome will IMO have little if any effect on a public forum that is ran in a responsible manner....

It would be worthwhile to go read the thread about the lawsuit or the wiki article that the lawsuit centers on, before making assumptions about the content.

It is more fact than opinion. The court documents are public record. Many of the opinions are from people who have bought and worked on Streetbeast cars. A bit more qualified opinions than just the usual hearsay that gets tossed around lightly.

Thread about the lawsuit:

http://hotrodders.com/streetbeasts

wiki article:

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...ud_controversy

The guys at HR.com said many of the same things as what's being said here about our first amendment rights, but there was a lawsuit filed anyway, and now Jon has to defend himself against it, or take down the article. It would be a shame if someone went to spend some time on the web looking for opinions about the kitcar they wanted to buy, but could only find one side of the story.

Frank Zappa used to say, "It can't happen here"...or can it?

Later, Mikey

[Dave Severson]

That's all neat, and I did read it.... But I'll still stick by my original contention that when you put things like this in writing and intentionally defame and libel a company, a lawsuit is always a possibility...

It really has nothing to do with the 1st amendment, it has to do with taking responsibility for what you put in print and being willing to defend it in court......... There are many references to court cases regarding the 1st amendment to the constitution, I just recently took a quick look at some of them and they in no way offer protection of the 1st amendment right to freedom of speech when slander, libel, and defammation of charachter or reputation are concerned....

Another consideration, the general concensus of individuals on a forum will not take precedent over a court decision....

I would also wonder if the plantiff can consider himself an expert on Streetbeast cars.....as in how many of them has he personally built? how many and what other brands has he built? Is he regarded as an expert in the field of Hot Rod construction? Has he ran, and for how long, a business who's primary work it is to assemble and complete a Streetbeast and other similarly manufactured cars? Are these facts based on his own personal experience as an expert in the field, or has he just assembled a lot of heresay from 3rd parties???

As with many other misinterpetations of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, one can not absolve themselves of personal responsibility for their speech or actions by wrapping themselves in the flag and claiming immunity to prosecution because it suits them now.....

Expressing a personal opinion is one thing, but compiling heresay and presenting it as fact is another........

And, all this is of course, JMO...... But I do know that both companies and individuals are entitled to equal protection under the law. If Streetbeasts feel they have been slandered and it has done damage to their reputation they will have to prove this in court, just as the plantiff will have to prove in court that all of his allegations are true.....

IMO, all this will come down to is a lesson for someone in personal responsibility and accountability for their words and actions....

[pat mccarthy]

who cares ?? someone ask a questions ?? so did the guy go over boad ? maybe but are they good cars and built safe? i seen one at a friends shop getting rework ? it was new at the time .i would love to tell you about it but i do not want to get sued . and i would love to tell you about all the new junk i had to fix or send back but i do not want to get sued what comes to mind is $3000 worth of custom pistons . i would love to post on here but i could get sued

[lightninrodman]

But I'll still stick by my original contention that when you put things like this in writing and intentionally defame and libel a company, a lawsuit is always a possibility

The display of court documents and the reasons that the company was called into court is not slanderous or libelous.

Slander is a spoken falshood, while libel is a printed false statement, both meant to harm, or "defame" the reputation, of a company or individual.


The lawsuit possibility became reality, and Jon has accepted the financial responsibility, and already spent a considerable amount of his own money to protect his statements. Many others have pledged their financial support to allow him to continue the battle through it's conclusion, in the interest of free speech and consumer protection.

Later, mikey

[Bob Parmenter]

Any discussion of the First Amendment in regards to this or similar matters is misplaced. The Constitution is written to protect citizens from actions by the government, not actions between private parties/entities.

I'm not an attorney, and I don't think we have any on the forum here, but it looks to me like SB is trying an intimidation technique. In order for them to prevail they'll need to PROVE harm. They can talk about how they believe they've been harmed, but can they prove it? If they wanted to go after everyone on the internet who's ever said anything bad about them they'd have to sell a lot more cars in order to pay the attorney fees. When I was in business I had a software company threaten me with a law suit for contract violation because I refused to pay for their product when it turned out to be a BETA program rather than a fully tested/operational system as promised. All I had to do was tell their attorney to bring it on. They'd have to sue me in my town. I told him I was looking forward to addressing the judge/jury as a "poor" little businessman against the "giant" multi-billion dollar international corporation. The next day their rep was there with a release and picked up his junk software. If SB can prove that they were unjustly defamed they would deserve to prevail, but if they're trying to intimidate folks from informing others with factual info they deserve to be beaten back. With a small bit of effort HR.com should be able to find an attorney to take the case on contingency if how they've presented their position is accurate.

[Dave Severson]

Well then, best of luck in court.... What I read in that statement is certainly not all based on fact.... But hey, I don't and won't have a dog in the fight, and I fail to see where the reckless actions of one forum threatens all of the other forums.

Having been through a few legal proceedings the only advice I will offer is to get a good lawyer and remember that self-righteous indignation is not a point of law......

Oh yeah, you still haven't convinced me that this case has a thing to do with the 1st amendment, but then I'm not the one that has to be convinced of that.....as they say on TV, save it for the judge..... but you will find out that the courts don't necessarily have the same definitions of words that you will find in your dictionary....

[billlsbird]

Ok Dave, the check is in the mail.

Thanks, Bud.

Upon reflection, I got a little over the top on this one, and apologize to all concerned. I let my personal feelings about that individual hijack what Centerline was trying to do, which was alert us to the potential for censorship in our forums. Had a tough day at work today and vented a little more than I shoulda. Now I think I will go kick the cat.

Don

WHAT??? you kicked the cat??? Sorry Don I had to call the SPCA, they should be showing up at your house shortly.... :-o)

[Dave Severson]

who cares ?? someone ask a questions ?? so did the guy go over boad ? maybe but are they good cars and built safe? i seen one at a friends shop getting rework ? it was new at the time .i would love to tell you about it but i do not want to get sued . and i would love to tell you about all the new junk i had to fix or send back but i do not want to get sued what comes to mind is $3000 worth of custom pistons . i would love to post on here but i could get sued

More sage advice from another small buisnessman.... Look at the part of your dollar bill that sez let the buyer beware. Tort lawyers are the sharpest lawyers around, they can turn your life absolutely upside down and you can wind up with your tool box in the pawn shop to cover legal expenses quicker then you can say "dang ambulance chasers"!

[Dave Severson]

WHAT??? you kicked the cat??? Sorry Don I had to call the SPCA, they should be showing up at your house shortly.... :-o)

Oh man, not the cat!!!! Kick Dan, but not the cat!!!!!!

[pat mccarthy]

Oh man, not the cat!!!! Kick Dan, but not the cat!!!!!!

don scares me never seen him like that? just think if he was a mail man i was like that every day when i work on them boats but i never kick any thing other then working on boats and the heavy drinking at the end of the day .i do not miss them boats or the drinking well maybe just a wee bit of the rum and coke

[vara4]

Wow!!!
I have not seen fighting like this since way back.
Give me some cause I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, HA! HA! HA!
The last time I seen this much action was when HEAD said something about
Liquid Oxygen in 02-04-04.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...iquid+nitrogen
Sure makes funny reading now though.
I think I may have said some thing's that were not very nice. Sorry Kurt.