Thread: Big 3 bailout

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Why do the brain dead reporters keep calling this the big 3 bail out when ford in not included???????
It is really the big 2 bail out for the record.
Ford is taking NO money.

I hear yah. I'm not opposed to bailing any of these guys out, but would like to put some big stipulations to the money. 1) The company is no longer run by big buck execs who take huge salaries and bonuses, instead it becomes a employee run COOP! I don't think a assembly worker making $12.50 an hour would approve a 36 million golden handshake or the private corperat jet trips, season tickets to the Packers......2) They have to pay it back to the people..that's right you and me. Either as a car discount incentive, or cash!

Shawn, based on the numbers, Ford certainly seems to be in better shape than the other two, and I think that Mulally deserves some credit for that. But having said that they're sitting at the same table holding out a tin cup too, so when you bed with dogs don't be surprised if you get up with fleas. Besides, this is really a bailout for the UAW (that's not the same as saying its all their fault, they are a significant contributor though) that would explain why Ford has to go along.

Steve, are you going to run for Congress?

I could go on, but it just so happens there were two pieces in the WSJ today, the first by a sensible Democrat who actually knows how to run a business; http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122887092443993347.html

The second by a columnist who gets it: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122887051709693341.html

that pretty much save me a lot of typing.

I say let them fall. I once heard that this country is founded upon capitalism. In my eyes, the 'big three' learned NOTHING from the fuel crisis of Carter's administration. They went right back to making big gas guzzlers, at the time when the whole rest of the world was going compact, fuel efficient, and alternative energy vehicles.
CEOs took more, more, and more for themselves, utterly disregarding the good of the company. Unions also, did their absolute best to bleed the companies dry.

If memory serves: a union exec at a recent negotiation, declared the union would rather "See the company shut its door than to make a single concession". Ok, so now they are reaping the benifits of thier arrogance. The unltimate irony is that the unions would never have formed had the auto makers simply treated them well from the beginning. And now the unions, through their inflexibility have brought the corporations to their knees. Between wages and legacy costs, the corporations can no longer produce vehicles profitably.

No, indeed no, let them fall. Bailing them out is analagous to giving a dunkard another bottle of booze. The big execs demonstrated total incompetence, and absolute lack of comprehension when they flew down individually, in Leer jets, to ask for bailout money.

No, let them fall. The Koreans, Chineese, Japanese, etc will buy up the plants and have them up and running again within the year. Without unions, and at fair pay, and reasonable leadership.

Ford is better off with cash right now, but not for long. If the other 2 restructure and Ford does not, Ford will be, uh, Found On Road Dead.

The $15B 'bridge' funding with all its stipulations is available to all 3 if it passes.

Kitz

Have any of you seen or read the posts on other sites where Ford is going to sue and make any site that is car specific stop using the cars name? For instance Mustangs Unlimited got a letter from them supposedly telling them they could not use the Mustang name and there is a site like this one that is for the Ford Ranger owners and that site administrator said he had received notice from ford that he could not use the Ranger name any more as that was their name. Talk about a way to win customers and when they have their hands out wanting the tax payers to bail them out. I suppose all sites with any Ford car name are going to be receiving the same warning to stop using the name.

Ron

I would rather have the big 3 bailed out than for them to keep spending my money on failing banks and brokerage firms. At least the big 3 bailout will be saving jobs. They need to make stipulations that they are run by other personnel than what has gotten them into this mess in the first place.

let them fall? are you literally insane? yes lets end all industry left int he usa be completely dependant on other countries for everything them let our own government round us up and ship us off to slave camps its closer then you think

The Czar or whatever foolish name they have given him ,will tell them how to run their business or they have to pay back any bailout loans.........
Sounds like a prime place for foolishness to run wild...?????

A year or so ago in HEMMINGS CLASSIC CAR magazine there was a series of articles about how the auto companies pitched in to manufacture war material, weapons, guns, tanks, planes and all that good stuff that helped us win WWII. If these companies are allowed to fail and disappear, I fear we will be sitting ducks for whatever government wants to start the next BIG ONE. I know wars will never be fought like they were then, with smart bombs and laser guided rockets and such, but without these big manufacturing centers I feel we could be at risk.

Originally Posted by fitzwilly

A year or so ago in HEMMINGS CLASSIC CAR magazine there was a series of articles about how the auto companies pitched in to manufacture war material, weapons, guns, tanks, planes and all that good stuff that helped us win WWII. If these companies are allowed to fail and disappear, I fear we will be sitting ducks for whatever government wants to start the next BIG ONE. I know wars will never be fought like they were then, with smart bombs and laser guided rockets and such, but without these big manufacturing centers I feel we could be at risk.

yes that has been in the back of my mine to. alot of guys on here are not in mich so it is EZ to say let them fail .they do not live in mich and if you think at will not affect you in some way i think you are very wrong . ok what to do ? hell i do not know. but what i do know is the union needs to be busted they have gm and other by the throat they are and are killing the host sucking the life bood out of the big 3 till dead . i know many that have work for gm they have allways made alot more money then anyone that did not work for gm some good workers some not worth a damn. but could not be fired easily the union back them up so i think the union needs to get fired i may have to pull this i could be shot for saying this

You know it's funny that just years ago we were buying everything that all the car Manufactures were making. The SUV's, big trucks, cars, etc. with no thought of what the gas mileage was on them. Now in the last year gas prices go up, cars don't sell and the big three get the blame. Come on guys, it's not entirely there fault. Banks crash, people can't get loans and cars aren't selling. Now what would happen if all three went out of business. All the companies that make the parts for your vehicles are gone, no dealerships, insurance companys go broke, etc. and where would that put us? ression, hell no. Your takling about a depression. I think the only way the car companys can make it is the unions have to settle for a much lower wage than the average assembly person makes. With benefits it's over $70.00/hr. Not to shabby of a income is it??? And the CO's and CEO's would have to go and make way for new people or else the same thing is going to happen all over again. Just my 2 cents worth.

Originally Posted by chevy 37

You know it's funny that just years ago we were buying everything that all the car Manufactures were making. The SUV's, big trucks, cars, etc. with no thought of what the gas mileage was on them. Now in the last year gas prices go up, cars don't sell and the big three get the blame. Come on guys, it's not entirely there fault. Banks crash, people can't get loans and cars aren't selling. Now what would happen if all three went out of business. All the companies that make the parts for your vehicles are gone, no dealerships, insurance companys go broke, etc. and where would that put us? ression, hell no. Your takling about a depression. I think the only way the car companys can make it is the unions have to settle for a much lower wage than the average assembly person makes. With benefits it's over $70.00/hr. Not to shabby of a income is it??? And the CO's and CEO's would have to go and make way for new people or else the same thing is going to happen all over again. Just my 2 cents worth.

you are so rigth No one push them big trucks and suv they built down any ones throat .they built what sold and you wanted to buy it if we had fuel at 1.40 and a endless supply of fuel it would be somewhat better ???

I dont know to much about the auto bizz BUT if your not making any money now (so they claim) Just how are they going to repay the TAXPAYERS you an me? Just wondering arent you?

I think the whole bailout thing is kind of like a fashion trend or a fad, maybe???? Still can't find a listing in DC for the Department of Bailout, I could sure use a few billion to help with our racing budget!!!

The banks got their big bailout, seems like they're just sitting on the money....If the big 3 have such a workable plan and it's a slam dunk for an istant return on investment, why don't the banks loan them the money???

I figured all 3 would welcome restructurring under Chapter 11, would give them a chance to dump the unions and negotiate with workers based on productivity, attendance, job improvement recomendations and things that might actually make a difference!!!!

I respect the unions for what they helped to accomplish making working conditions better and safer for workers, but haven't they really outlived their usefullnes now??? Friend of mine, retired about 5 years, was a UAW member for 30 years...not by choice but because he was more or less forced to belong... His opinion was that the UAW's main purpose was to protect the slackers and hold back the go-getters!!!! Having never been in a union I would have no idea if that is true, but it's what he's been saying about the union for years.....