Thread: Proof of global warming...........

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Heck yeah, let's not discriminate against dopers!!!! Doesn't matter if you fessed up to prior use a decade ago, or just got busted recently....

Isn't money spent on anything technically an earmark???? Oh well, the free enterprise system, the economy, and health care are all in great shape.... Let's just keep things going the way they have been for the last 3 decades..... It'll fix itself, right???

I don't think the Obama administration, or any other individual or group has the answer......what I do know is we sure as heck better do something different besides blaming those in another party, or hoping that everything the current party in power tries is a failure.....

Doubt seriously anything will get fixed, just more fighting, arguing, and finger pointing until the entire country collapses.... The politicians broke it, why in the heck would they want to fix it??? Wouldn't that be a lot like admitting that they were wrong before???? Rather then a representative government, IMO what we have now is the best politicians money can buy!!!!!!!

Global warming? Today it was the coldest here than it has ever been since they have been recording temps 125 years ago it was -45 c over 40 below with the wind chill this morning. I like were i live ,but man give me a break ,im getting cabin fever.
I realise we are affecting our envirorment with co2 emissions but i gots to burn something to keep warm!

Found this on the internet, written by an anonymous person:

I am tired of politicians, scientists, and socialists who call me a global warming denier, because I know the Medieval Warm Period really existed, and that the temperatures were 1-2 degrees warmer than now, for a 450 year period between 900 and 1350, and the Greenland ice caps did not melt. I also know that the Roman Climate Optimum existed 2500 years ago, that it also lasted several hundred years, was 2-3 degrees warmer than the present, and the Greenland ice caps did not melt then either.

I am very tired of our politicians corrupting our scientists and destroying public faith in both science and our government, by only providing funding to those people who will do research to support a pre-determined outcome.

I am tired of major news outlets hyping every story about a slightly warmer-than-normal day or week, but ignoring the real climate science, and any data that refutes their new religion of global warming, such as - the climate has actually been cooling for the past decade.

I am tired of politicians, activists, and the main stream media putting all their faith in the IPCC, a political, self-serving body at the UN, where their report summary is written before the science is done, by political staff, and cannot be changed by the 250 or so actual scientists on the panel, yet at the same time, ignore the over 32,000 scientists and Nobel Prize winners who have signed the Oregon Initiative, discounting any man-made effect on global climate as minor.

I am tired of being told I must lower my standard of living to fight global warming, which no one is allowed to debate.

I am tired of the hysterical lies spouted by those people who want to control every aspect of our lives and tax our vital energy sources to achieve their utopia. They shout. "This is the warmest _____ (insert day, week, month, year, take your pick) ever!" Or "The CO2 levels have never been this high before!"

I am tired of politicians and environmental activists lying about how man-made CO2 is causing global warming, so they can control where we set our home thermostats, what light bulbs we are allowed to use, what kind of a car we can drive, and how many squares of toilet paper we can use at a sitting, while they jet around the world and live in 20 room mansions, using more energy in a month than most families use in 10 years

Amen, brother and I stand by what I posted in post 25 of this thread.

Sadly the "global warming" crowd has the bigger megaphone, and the more active propaganda machine. Here's further evidence against their "argument"; http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm but then, "The debate is over" isn't it?

I've been in sales most of my adult life. Those of you that have done likewise know that most sales people are honest folk providing a service. We also know that there are some disreputable types who employ deceptive tactics. Two of the most frequently used are the "buy it now before it's too late" close, and the what I like to call the "hey!!! look at this shiny thing over here" distraction. This "human caused climate change" employs both tactics. First it's the panic of "oh, we're destroying the earth and must act now", then when you start to point out the holes in their "argument" they divert attention elsewhere. This is a common tactic of those in politics that are trying to "sell" ideas that enhance their power. This past week we had a blatant example of their game yet the majority of people have been suckered in. Congress passes a law, the President signs it into affect, that LEGALLY authorizes bonus payments to AIG employees. Since it's the law the company pays the bonuses. Then the stuff hits the fan. What happens? The scumbag politicians, with the help of their media lapdogs dump the blame on the employees who received the bonuses. The Senator who put the article in the law draft first lies about his role in sponsoring it (yes, he was the largest political campaign donation recipient from AIG employees.....no conflict of interest there eh?). Then when called on it the next day issues a statement that he's not sure how it got in there, then the next day has to admit his roll but still tries to dump it off on someone else. Meanwhile, the President, who signed the law, and the rest of the Congress people who voted for it all claim outrage that the bonuses were paid!l So which is it? Are they liars or incompetent? Almost all of them are attornys so obviously they should understand what a contract is......................so I'd bet on the liar part. Then, they make a big show about ex post facto contract change and an unconstitutional penalizing tax to claw the money back, all the while inciting public mob anger over the $165 million of bonus money. That amount eqauls a mere 1/10 of 1 percent of the money "loaned" to AIG..........1/10 of 1 percent!!!!!! And for this these employees are subjected to death threats, ACORN sponsored bus loads of threatening mobs, and more! And what happens to the politicians who are really responsible for this mess? NADA! Where's the outrage over the $80 BILLION of the AIG loan money that was laundered to other financial institutions, mostly in Europe? Not a peep. Where's the priority of anger? Deflected somewhere else, away from the crooks in congress. So, is it any wonder that those same fools are so easily distracted into believing the human caused climate change story? It's all about controlling the populace. Let's just say there were some validity to the "excess" CO2 story. It's a well know fact that CO2 is plant food, essential for the production of oxygen for our environment. If there were a real problem to solve, and individual freedom and respect of personal property rights were important, should there be a "remediation" plan that included a significant planting of trees to offset the so called "carbon footprint" of each individual? Why are the only solutions offered are to limit personal freedoms, and confiscation of personal property, primarily money, under a convoluted scheme of "cap and trade". Probably the most important shorthand measure of the validity of this cap and trade scheme is that it was originally proposed by those wonderful folks at ENRON. But again, the sheeple just won't get it!

Global warming my butt!!!! For the next 7 days, the highest predicted temp is 47!!!!! C'mon, I could use about another 20 degrees of that global warmer upper!!!!! Today barely hit 30 degrees, "pleasant" other then the 30 mph wind gust out of the north......

Dave, your low temperatures are just another bit of proof of global warming....at least that's what the advocates say!

Originally Posted by robot

Dave, your low temperatures are just another bit of proof of global warming....at least that's what the advocates say!

Oh gee whiz, now I understand!! It's all clear as mud!!!!!

Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

Sadly the "global warming" crowd has the bigger megaphone, and the more active propaganda machine. ......... It's all about controlling the populace. Let's just say there were some validity to the "excess" CO2 story. It's a well know fact that CO2 is plant food, essential for the production of oxygen for our environment. If there were a real problem to solve, and individual freedom and respect of personal property rights were important, should there be a "remediation" plan that included a significant planting of trees to offset the so called "carbon footprint" of each individual? Why are the only solutions offered are to limit personal freedoms, and confiscation of personal property, primarily money, under a convoluted scheme of "cap and trade". Probably the most important shorthand measure of the validity of this cap and trade scheme is that it was originally proposed by those wonderful folks at ENRON. But again, the sheeple just won't get it!

If global warming is a joke than the majority of the entire scientific community, world wide, who have gone to school to study science are all wrong!
I'm tired of the reteric about democrats and republicans. People we are screwing up our planet. If you can't accept this than don't. Don't try to convince me global warming doesn't exist or that we aren't creating real problems with our use of this planet. I've got two science degrees, CO2 build up from industrialization is a problem. I'm sure most of you think Al Gore invented global warming as a political platform to run on. Wrong again! These ideas and theories have been out there for a much longer time period than he has ever even been concieved. We will continue to have extreme weather fluxes both cold and hot. And yes there have been historical patterns of ice ages prior to our own existance as a natural pattern on this planet. Global warming works much the same way.
What really bothers me with all of these discussions is that everyone blames someone else. Nobody wants to look at their own lifestyle and accept some blame for negative climatic changes on a global level for the way we choose to utilize this planets resources.
We could argue science. We could argue religion. In the end, stall tactics and bitching won't change the effects of extreme industrialization to future generations to come! Every habitat has a carrying capacity. The planet is no different. We have created so many extreme practices in developing the world that the world is fighting back. Think not? Live on the west coast? Gone salmon fishing lately? Live in a big city? Have trouble breathing on hot days? Arguments about this, are like quoting statistics, depending on who you want to sway, you just slant your survey. No single person on this forum has the knowledge base to prove to me that if we don't change our lifestyle practices that our future generations are going to suffer for our aragance.

Originally Posted by stovens

If global warming is a joke than the majority of the entire scientific community, world wide, who have gone to school to study science are all wrong!
I'm tired of the reteric about democrats and republicans. People we are screwing up our planet. If you can't accept this than don't. Don't try to convince me global warming doesn't exist or that we aren't creating real problems with our use of this planet. I've got two science degrees, CO2 build up from industrialization is a problem. I'm sure most of you think Al Gore invented global warming as a political platform to run on. Wrong again! These ideas and theories have been out there for a much longer time period than he has ever even been concieved. We will continue to have extreme weather fluxes both cold and hot. And yes there have been historical patterns of ice ages prior to our own existance as a natural pattern on this planet. Global warming works much the same way.
What really bothers me with all of these discussions is that everyone blames someone else. Nobody wants to look at their own lifestyle and accept some blame for negative climatic changes on a global level for the way we choose to utilize this planets resources.
We could argue science. We could argue religion. In the end, stall tactics and bitching won't change the effects of extreme industrialization to future generations to come! Every habitat has a carrying capacity. The planet is no different. We have created so many extreme practices in developing the world that the world is fighting back. Think not? Live on the west coast? Gone salmon fishing lately? Live in a big city? Have trouble breathing on hot days? Arguments about this, are like quoting statistics, depending on who you want to sway, you just slant your survey. No single person on this forum has the knowledge base to prove to me that if we don't change our lifestyle practices that our future generations are going to suffer for our aragance.

Now that's the most common sense approach I've heard on any of these issues....Thanks for the enlightenment.

Like you, I become dismayed when everything has to become an Us vs. Them thing with the result being the truth gets hidden and nothing happens but a bunch of arguments... Just like so many other issues--we're supposed to take a side and follow blindly whatever course of action that side percieves as correct. Unfortunately the only course of action that either side ever seems to take is to bad mouth and degrade the other side, and the real issue becomes a non-issue....

Looks to me like just one more place where people should decide for themselves, do what they can about the issue, and let the politicians argue and do absolutely nothing else.... Maybe it's time we all stood up for our own beliefs and do something that is "right" for us??????

That's about sums it up Dave.

Originally Posted by stovens

If global warming is a joke than the majority of the entire scientific community, world wide, who have gone to school to study science are all wrong!
No single person on this forum has the knowledge base to prove to me that if we don't change our lifestyle practices that our future generations are going to suffer for our aragance.

Your first premise is based on non-factual information. It is based on popular propaganda however. http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...a-b35d0842fed8 Factually there is little disagreement that global temps HAD been rising for a goodly number of years, the less established point, and the less agreed to notion is that it is caused by human activity. The predictive models used by those who do believe global warming is human caused have failed repeatedly in back testing (in other words plugging in past historic data and seeing if the model accurately predicts where we have ACTUALLY ended up climate wise today). The model doesn't take into account the effects of water vapor on climate, and as pointed out, water vapor (also a greenhouse gas) is 120 times greater in volume than CO2. Faulty premises result in faulty conclusions. Someone educated in science should recognize that no? As for scientific "consensus" supporting the accuracy of the belief, centuries back the scientific "consensus" was that the world was flat. Today we know how silly that notion was, but it was based at the time on the best knowledge available to the scientists of the day.

The second statement is a clear definition of what our real problem is. You've basically stated that no one on this site is as smart as you on this subject. That's the dominant narrative in our society today. Therefore, any debate provided by those lesser beings is wrong and therefore dismissed out of hand (thus the Al Gore declaration "the debate is over").

Still no answer to the challenge, "why is it necessary the only responses to this "problem" are restictions of personal freedom and confiscation of private property of average citizens?" , while the elites who advance these beliefs continue to live the high life.

Respect for private property is the cornerstone of the historically unparalleled freedom the common man had enjoyed in this country. That freedom is under more severe attack today than at any other time in our history except maybe at our inception (which was what caused the inception of the United States) "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance", Thomas Jefferson.

Originally Posted by Evolvo

When I read Stovens reply I understood that he was including himself in the "no single person on this forum" statement. Seems to have gotten Uncle Bob's shorts in a knot!!

Earlier I referred to tactics used in speech/discussion/presentation. Without malice I’m sure (he’s likely mimicking those he’s sympathetic with) Steve used one of them, the “you’re (not necessarily aimed specifically at me) not informed/educated/sophisticated/whatever enough…….” tactic. You, probably as innocently, used the “he’s on an angry rant….” tactic. Dave used the “those who I don’t fully agree with are divisive……” tactic. All frequent and familiar tactics of the bigger megaphone I referred to earlier, intended to immediately diminish the opinions of the target but lacking in intellectual honesty. I accept my minority position in fearing for the assault on property rights for the common man, but that doesn’t diminish my willingness to challenge the popular narrative that supports greater power for political elites and their chosen supporters. My paternal ancestors came to this continent 370 years ago as indentured servants to escape the tyranny of elites, it’s a family tradition I guess.

370 years ago??? Doesnt that put you in a "special class" also?

I'm impressed that the proponents of the GW theory have their mind made up.....they're "scientists" but dont want to see any more information or theories....exclude all new material unless it fits my model!!!

I think that we should gather at least 1000 years of data using today's measuring devices before we go make an irrational decision and dork up the world's economy by "charging" for the right to pollute.

mike in tucson

Bob you are exactly the person I'm talking about, when I say we all have different opinions. No single person has the knowledge to desuade me. That means to me, that a collective group of scientist colaberating as a whole means more to me than one individual. Please don't put words in my mouth. I do not think I'm smarter than everyone here. Proof positive, I wouldn't be here seeking advice of people with a vast more information than I for my truck. But I am not nieve enough to buy into your argument either. Thats just me, based on my perception and experience. If you feel different than that is your opinion based on your knowledge and experience. I'm not willing to bet my ignorance on the worlds' future, maybe you are. Either way that is how I feel. Now post away, quote statistics, point to your fact based websites, pull info that people of your opinion will find and post it! I still can practice responsible consumerism and conserve where I can, yet I too am part of the problem.