Thread: gun control

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[QUOTE=Bob Parmenter;347489]We have sunk to such a depth that the restatement of the obvious has become the first duty of intelligent men.

-- George Orwell, 1939

I find some delicious irony in that being a 70 year old quote. The human condition continues.

In this case the obvious is that laws don't necessarily stop bad behavior, their enforcement merely attempts to maintain civil harmony. In each of the sad circumstances that Dave's cut and pastes points out a fundamental and consistent law dating back millenia was violated: Thou shalt not kill.

Likewise, licensing, training and government control don't guarantee a positive outcome. If preventing death is the primary objective then we should ban automobiles, if banning inanimate objects is considered effective. QUOTE]


The Orwell quote is indeed relavant, and I'm not one of the one's who want guns banned. Guns are fine when they are in the hands of a mentally stable, intelligent, and trained user...

If mandatory licensing similar to the requirements for a driver's license, and mandatory training much like driver's education were required would it really be that big of an infringement on anyone's rights???

Nothing will guarantee a 100% positive outcome, and certainly banning inanimate objects wouldn't be an acceptable answer... But if licensing, training, and monitoring gun owners were to prevent just some of these deaths wouldn't it be a positive move??

To save even one death of an innocent person, especially if it were a friend or family member, would to me and to many be good enough reason to implement at least some requirements....

After all, does the 2nd Amendment really trump the law of "Thou Shalt not Kill"? As with many arguments, common sense would indicate that there is a common ground and a point of comprimise on the issue of gun control. As with many other issues, perhaps it's time we ignored the extremists at either end of the spectrum, and people with common sense were to seek a comprimise someplace in the middle????

this "rash" of recent gun crimes is nothing new, the media is just now reporting it alot more. in an effort to frighten everyday people so they can take our guns.

please deposit gun here and take bread line voucher for line #4.

Man has been killing each other since the dawn of time.
If anyone thinks banning guns will stop any killing, you are kidding yourself.

Guns are not the problem.......people are the problem!

Originally Posted by Sinister

Man has been killing each other since the dawn of time.
If anyone thinks banning guns will stop any killing, you are kidding yourself.

Guns are not the problem.......people are the problem!

Plain and simple!!!! More laws will not change a thing. I know for a fact it is easier for me to obtain illegal automatic firearms, than it is for me to do it legally. You can have all the laws you want, i will still get one if needed.

Only a Higher power (pc) can solve this never ending problem.

If gun control comes to be, then there will be ONLY two types of people that will have guns: CRIMINALS & THE GOVERNMENT.
Here is a little documented history on gun control from a very respected journalist. Maybe the mods. will allow this. I for one will ALWAYS have a gun!!


http://graham.main.nc.us/~bhammel/GOV/guns.html

dave I hesitate to make this post because I know it is futile to inter into the arena of ideas with an unarmed man they always resort to name calling. they have proved time and again that facts are like kryptonite to super man. you always beat the same drum don't examine results just look at our good intentions I am smart enough to know I can't broaden your thinking so maybe I can expand your vocabulary try these. raciest, sexiest, homophobe, right winger, draconian machiavellian, Nazi,and of course neo con. feel free to print these and post next to your computer after all I wouldn't want you to feel unarmed ...ted p.s. ditto's bob

Interesting thread. I have owned guns since I was a kid. We used to target shoot 22's, then as a teenager duck hunt with shotguns. As I grew older I collected old militarty rifles and cleaned them up, and took them occassionaly to the range. Later I got a Colt .45 1911 Government model. I've never complained about my waiting period or background search.
I do have mixed feelings about guns and crimes. I realize most crimes committed with guns probably involve guns obtained illegally. Gun control for gun control sake, i.e. getting weapons off the streets has lots of fundamental problems. Just as people obtain guns illegally from other countries, they do so with firearms as well.
I have friends that see gun control only as a threat to their god given constitutional right to bear arms. I also have friends that think I'm nuts for owning a handgun. I guess I fall in the middle ground where Dave has been posting from. I hate going to chain sporting goods stores that sell cheap Chinese Military surplus weapons that easily can be converted to assault machine guns. I also don't see the need to own a m-16 or a .50 caliber sniper's rifle. That being said, a .50 caliber is an amazing rifle that any marksman or distance targeter would love to own. It's not practical, and it is a big threat in the wrong hands, but so is any weapon including black powder revolvers whih require no waiting period, and can be bought over the counter even in California.
It's hard to debate gun control, because drawing a line or labeling a weapon as good or bad is not clear cut. Living in the Bay Area, working at a Hospital, it's sad to see the damage people do to eachother. I'm all for registering and background checks on all gun owners who obtain guns legally, but there is no way to stop illegal weapons from getting into the hands of someone who wants to kill someonelse.
My gun collecting friends(Card carrying members of the NRA) will tell you that if you look to England you will see, how slowly and insidiously guns have been taken away from the public through one law after another. They will point out how the public attitude was changed over a period of hundreds of years to the point where if you own a gun your a nut. They will also point out that baning assault rifles and taxing ammunition is the first step to no more guns.

Converversely my anti gun friends(liberal extremist pacifists) will shout out that all guns are evil, hunting is cruel, and vegetarian diet will mellow us all out. They still enjoy a nice steak that someone else has had to kill. They also complain where are the police when you need them. They also carry mace and are happy to use it!
Thus where is the middle hear. Opposing assault weapons to one croud is tantamount to revoking your NRA membership, while the other is the start of the solution.
For now I'm happy for the background checks, don't like some gun law in California, and watch each issue carefully as it is proposed. I'd prefer not to be taxed for ammunition and then have a limited time to use it, I'd like to get a hunting rifle, but I have no desire to kill anyone. So I guess I'm the rare middle egg, that people constantly try to push one way or the other.

http://graham.main.nc.us/~bhammel/GOV/guns.html

I have hardly ever posted - and before I get abused I think this is one of the best hotrod sites around, you guys rock!! I hate to bring up and old thread.. but..Dave S in my opinion is a car building legend and I am 100% with you on this subject, and if one of you pro gun guys can actually give me a "real" reason for carrying a weapon, regardless gun, knife or whatever I will be impressed. Like we say in oz drink a cup of concrete and harden the F up !!!

I am an Ozzie, and lived in Texas from 2000 to 2003 and have had this debate with my American friends so many times, and I have lots of American friends . But not once have I heard a decent argument for carrying guns. My first day in Houston three guys were shot and killed at a car wash just around the corner from Rice village.

Sure we have violence in Oz, but we don't unload a 9mm every 10min like you guys do. Its mental, really think about it for a while - the world if a tough place, but how many of you have actually left the great USA!! The rubbish about hunting for food ?? c'mon give me a break, it cost a couple of bucks to get a cheese burger - your ammo costs more. Also FYI I have worked and lived outside of Oz for the past 15 years - including some pretty rough places in the " middle east" and Africa.

If i hear its not guns that kill people, people kill people one more time I will puke. Sure we kill people in oz but guns crimes are nearly non existent..

Anyway stop shooting people and the world will be a better place.

Cheers,

Lyndsay!1

Originally Posted by westoz

I have hardly ever posted - and before I get abused I think this is one of the best hotrod sites around, you guys rock!! I hate to bring up and old thread.. but..Dave S in my opinion is a car building legend and I am 100% with you on this subject, and if one of you pro gun guys can actually give me a "real" reason for carrying a weapon, regardless gun, knife or whatever I will be impressed. Like we say in oz drink a cup of concrete and harden the F up !!!

I am an Ozzie, and lived in Texas from 2000 to 2003 and have had this debate with my American friends so many times, and I have lots of American friends . But not once have I heard a decent argument for carrying guns. My first day in Houston three guys were shot and killed at a car wash just around the corner from Rice village.

Sure we have violence in Oz, but we don't unload a 9mm every 10min like you guys do. Its mental, really think about it for a while - the world if a tough place, but how many of you have actually left the great USA!! The rubbish about hunting for food ?? c'mon give me a break, it cost a couple of bucks to get a cheese burger - your ammo costs more. Also FYI I have worked and lived outside of Oz for the past 15 years - including some pretty rough places in the " middle east" and Africa.

If i hear its not guns that kill people, people kill people one more time I will puke. Sure we kill people in oz but guns crimes are nearly non existent..

Anyway stop shooting people and the world will be a better place.

Cheers,

Lyndsay!1

Ive got a good reason for you westoz. Lets say you come home from a hard days work, to find your family held hostage, your daughter has already been raped, your sons throat slashed, and your wife is next. Would you say please finish up and leave guys, and dont hurt anyone else. guess what your next on the list for breaking up the party ! Thats a chance I am not willing to take. People are murdered, robbed, raped, and beat daily. Just because it has not happened to you yet does not mean it cant happen. Kill or be killed, what you do is your business, I choose to fight for my familys lives and my own.

Thanks for dragging this back out for another round of bitter posts !

I once spent two months in Taiwan installing a machine. The most common questions that I was asked was "how many sons do you have and how many guns do you own?" I found that the more sons you have, the more comfortable retirement you have. For guns, they had a law that, if you are caught with a gun, you die by firing squad...
guns were a big item of interest to them. Then, they quite often asked "what's your opinion regarding knife control?"......didnt quite realize what that meant until I heard that the zealots wanted to outlaw knives among law-abiding citizens. They had a problem with criminals using knives in crimes......"when knives are outlawed, only outlaws will have knives"

all you people who want to take away my rights should put a big sign in your front yard that says THIS IS A GUN FREE HOME DO NOT ENTER. and let us know how that works out for you. just drink another cup of cement and leave my constitutional rights alone thank you ......ted

I should have mentioned that I am ex SAS and that i do understand that we all need to defend our families, county and friends - I have worked with some of your finest and have been trained to kill, but i choose not too, I just don't understand why some people believe its ok to shoot first and ask questions later! Its about time that some people understand that guns do kill innocent people.. And if you are serious about what you just said somethings need to be changed. Sorry to bring up this old subject, it just upsets me to see this attitude thats all.I have seen enough death and destruction in my life and don't get why people think they need to arm themselves with fire arms to feel safe - if you need a gun to feel safe, there are much deeper problems that need to be addressed. Peace out my fellow rodders!!

Lyndsay!1 - You want a reason .... check the daily news paper here in atlanta (01/13/10) about the disgruntled employee that went back to his work place - shot the first person hey saw, who was NOT an employee but a patron, then go into the business & shot 4 others - 3 dead. No one was able to fire back because ...... they didn't have a gun. Of course they could have blocked the bullets with file folders or tried to reason with him .....

Unless you work in a bubble ....... I'd rather have & not need than to need & not have.



I guess your statements & opinions about guns or not carrying one would be lots of comfort to those families that lost a loved one. Not!

I venture to believe you came here (this GREAT COUNTRY) for a reason & its probably not for the coffee. You could always return to the Oz.

I'm with ted dehaan.

Ya know I love when foreigners come here to suck this country dry & then complain about the problems. Un-F'n-believable.



REGS

I'm with REGs, and many more on here!!!!!!!!

If you think it's not right to have & carry guns, then why don't you stop wasting our time, and go convince the bad guys to stop carrying their guns, so that we don't have to!

I didn't think it would work either! So I'll be keeping mine!


I agree --> "Ya know I love when foreigners come here to suck this country dry & then complain about the problems. Un-F'n-believable."

Why do foreigners come here and try to change "our" country to what theirs is like, Why not just stay there if it's so much better there!

And for the bullets I buy for the cost of a chesse burger, I can eat and keep a lot of meat in the freezer. For many of years, cause I only shoot one bullet to take down a deer, a bear, Elk, etc, I hit what I shoot at, I have never had to put 2 bullets in anything I've taken down! One bullet, one kill!!!

I'll let you go so that you can drink your concrete and harden the F up !!!


Pat