Thread: gun control

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Man has been killing each other since the dawn of time.
If anyone thinks banning guns will stop any killing, you are kidding yourself.

Guns are not the problem.......people are the problem!

Originally Posted by Sinister

Man has been killing each other since the dawn of time.
If anyone thinks banning guns will stop any killing, you are kidding yourself.

Guns are not the problem.......people are the problem!

Plain and simple!!!! More laws will not change a thing. I know for a fact it is easier for me to obtain illegal automatic firearms, than it is for me to do it legally. You can have all the laws you want, i will still get one if needed.

Only a Higher power (pc) can solve this never ending problem.

If gun control comes to be, then there will be ONLY two types of people that will have guns: CRIMINALS & THE GOVERNMENT.
Here is a little documented history on gun control from a very respected journalist. Maybe the mods. will allow this. I for one will ALWAYS have a gun!!


http://graham.main.nc.us/~bhammel/GOV/guns.html

Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

Ya know Davey, there are a lot of folks that don't realize you and I have been "butting heads" like this for years.

Good thing for you I don't charge you for the amount of effort I have to put in to getting you to show your more moderate side!

Take it easy there Uncle Bob!!! I've got my reputation to consider!!!!



Unfortunately getting to the "middle ground" is more difficult for the more conservative types. The national narrative is more under the control of the left extreme. I suspect it was much easier for you to find those articles to cut and paste than it would be for someone who wanted to counter them by accessing the same forms of "popular" media. It takes more effort and passion to muster a comprehensive retort to the mass media echo chamber.

So, next time I hear someone described as a "staunch conservative" I could assume they mean bullheaded and unyielding?????

I'll never understand what's wrong with the middle ground... Not just on gun control but on so many, many issues it would seem a bit more comprimising and a lot less name calling and finger pointing would accomplish so much more.... Has the art of negotiation and comprimise completely given way to "You're wrong, I'm right"??? Maybe we could make resolving issues kind of like Olympic judging where they throw out the low score and high score and use the "opinions" in the middle????

In the gun control debate, and for that matter most all political debate, it would seem to me that we put for too much emphasis on the extreme left and the extreme right that the majority of folks who are somewhere in the middle end up with no voice in the proceedings at all.... For this we can thank the media as they strive for sensationalism by only talking up the extremes. I guess Joe Average doesn't make good news copy, does he??? Remember when journalism was who, what, when, where, and why and we were left to make up our own minds on an issue???? Now we are force fed what the media sees as right and wrong and told what to think and what to say.....the worst part is, so many folks seem to buy into the media hype of extremes, and perhaps ignore their own judgement......

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

So, next time I hear someone described as a "staunch conservative" I could assume they mean bullheaded and unyielding?????
......

Your comment could very well describe yourself......Your very first comment on this subject was....

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

What is the fascination with guns lately, anyway???? Home defense my butt!!!! Should be an intelligence test to make sure the person buying the gun is smarter then gun!!!! What a bunch of crap......

I have read this entire thread from the start and it would seem that almost all who posted (including me) have agreed with your first statement. But you have been going on and on about it for 8 pages now!!.....sounds kinda Bullheaded and unyielding to me.......

Originally Posted by T42

Your comment could very well describe yourself......Your very first comment on this subject was....



I have read this entire thread from the start and it would seem that almost all who posted (including me) have agreed with your first statement. But you have been going on and on about it for 8 pages now!!.....sounds kinda Bullheaded and unyielding to me.......

Ok, fine. Nothing more for me to say on the subject, I guess.... After all, it is a dissenting opinion.... I'm so sorry to be the only one who to you appears bullheaded and unyeilding......

PS--That comment on bullheaded and unyielding was to Bob, and it was followed by a few winks and smiles.... Bob and I have been exchanging jabs for quite some time on this forum on many different issues. Sorry you take such offense to it.

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Ok, fine. Nothing more for me to say on the subject, I guess.... After all, it is a dissenting opinion.... I'm so sorry to be the only one who to you appears bullheaded and unyeilding......

PS--That comment on bullheaded and unyielding was to Bob, and it was followed by a few winks and smiles.... Bob and I have been exchanging jabs for quite some time on this forum on many different issues. Sorry you take such offense to it.

No.....its not a dissenting opinion. As I said, most all of us agree with you that to own a gun, one should be mentally stable and well versed in its use and handling. Its the banning talk that gets everybody fired up.

I also realized that you were poking fun at Bob.....As I was doing to you.

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

So, next time I hear someone described as a "staunch conservative" I could assume they mean bullheaded and unyielding?????
......

You continue to prove my point, thank you. "Staunch conservative", as a phrase, is similar to "radical right wing". The self described "unbiased" media majority (and those who sympathize with them) will toss those kinds of phrases around with abandon, yet NEVER does it occur to them to say such things as "stauch Liberal" or "radical left wing". To them there could never be a Liberal idea that is overbearing, or a left wing idea that is too radical. Evidence of the dumbing down (or dishonesty in some cases) of defining the "middle ground". As for "bullheaded" and "unyielding" I refer you to my earlier quotation of T. Jefferson; "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

dave I hesitate to make this post because I know it is futile to inter into the arena of ideas with an unarmed man they always resort to name calling. they have proved time and again that facts are like kryptonite to super man. you always beat the same drum don't examine results just look at our good intentions I am smart enough to know I can't broaden your thinking so maybe I can expand your vocabulary try these. raciest, sexiest, homophobe, right winger, draconian machiavellian, Nazi,and of course neo con. feel free to print these and post next to your computer after all I wouldn't want you to feel unarmed ...ted p.s. ditto's bob

Interesting thread. I have owned guns since I was a kid. We used to target shoot 22's, then as a teenager duck hunt with shotguns. As I grew older I collected old militarty rifles and cleaned them up, and took them occassionaly to the range. Later I got a Colt .45 1911 Government model. I've never complained about my waiting period or background search.
I do have mixed feelings about guns and crimes. I realize most crimes committed with guns probably involve guns obtained illegally. Gun control for gun control sake, i.e. getting weapons off the streets has lots of fundamental problems. Just as people obtain guns illegally from other countries, they do so with firearms as well.
I have friends that see gun control only as a threat to their god given constitutional right to bear arms. I also have friends that think I'm nuts for owning a handgun. I guess I fall in the middle ground where Dave has been posting from. I hate going to chain sporting goods stores that sell cheap Chinese Military surplus weapons that easily can be converted to assault machine guns. I also don't see the need to own a m-16 or a .50 caliber sniper's rifle. That being said, a .50 caliber is an amazing rifle that any marksman or distance targeter would love to own. It's not practical, and it is a big threat in the wrong hands, but so is any weapon including black powder revolvers whih require no waiting period, and can be bought over the counter even in California.
It's hard to debate gun control, because drawing a line or labeling a weapon as good or bad is not clear cut. Living in the Bay Area, working at a Hospital, it's sad to see the damage people do to eachother. I'm all for registering and background checks on all gun owners who obtain guns legally, but there is no way to stop illegal weapons from getting into the hands of someone who wants to kill someonelse.
My gun collecting friends(Card carrying members of the NRA) will tell you that if you look to England you will see, how slowly and insidiously guns have been taken away from the public through one law after another. They will point out how the public attitude was changed over a period of hundreds of years to the point where if you own a gun your a nut. They will also point out that baning assault rifles and taxing ammunition is the first step to no more guns.

Converversely my anti gun friends(liberal extremist pacifists) will shout out that all guns are evil, hunting is cruel, and vegetarian diet will mellow us all out. They still enjoy a nice steak that someone else has had to kill. They also complain where are the police when you need them. They also carry mace and are happy to use it!
Thus where is the middle hear. Opposing assault weapons to one croud is tantamount to revoking your NRA membership, while the other is the start of the solution.
For now I'm happy for the background checks, don't like some gun law in California, and watch each issue carefully as it is proposed. I'd prefer not to be taxed for ammunition and then have a limited time to use it, I'd like to get a hunting rifle, but I have no desire to kill anyone. So I guess I'm the rare middle egg, that people constantly try to push one way or the other.

http://graham.main.nc.us/~bhammel/GOV/guns.html

I have hardly ever posted - and before I get abused I think this is one of the best hotrod sites around, you guys rock!! I hate to bring up and old thread.. but..Dave S in my opinion is a car building legend and I am 100% with you on this subject, and if one of you pro gun guys can actually give me a "real" reason for carrying a weapon, regardless gun, knife or whatever I will be impressed. Like we say in oz drink a cup of concrete and harden the F up !!!

I am an Ozzie, and lived in Texas from 2000 to 2003 and have had this debate with my American friends so many times, and I have lots of American friends . But not once have I heard a decent argument for carrying guns. My first day in Houston three guys were shot and killed at a car wash just around the corner from Rice village.

Sure we have violence in Oz, but we don't unload a 9mm every 10min like you guys do. Its mental, really think about it for a while - the world if a tough place, but how many of you have actually left the great USA!! The rubbish about hunting for food ?? c'mon give me a break, it cost a couple of bucks to get a cheese burger - your ammo costs more. Also FYI I have worked and lived outside of Oz for the past 15 years - including some pretty rough places in the " middle east" and Africa.

If i hear its not guns that kill people, people kill people one more time I will puke. Sure we kill people in oz but guns crimes are nearly non existent..

Anyway stop shooting people and the world will be a better place.

Cheers,

Lyndsay!1

Originally Posted by westoz

I have hardly ever posted - and before I get abused I think this is one of the best hotrod sites around, you guys rock!! I hate to bring up and old thread.. but..Dave S in my opinion is a car building legend and I am 100% with you on this subject, and if one of you pro gun guys can actually give me a "real" reason for carrying a weapon, regardless gun, knife or whatever I will be impressed. Like we say in oz drink a cup of concrete and harden the F up !!!

I am an Ozzie, and lived in Texas from 2000 to 2003 and have had this debate with my American friends so many times, and I have lots of American friends . But not once have I heard a decent argument for carrying guns. My first day in Houston three guys were shot and killed at a car wash just around the corner from Rice village.

Sure we have violence in Oz, but we don't unload a 9mm every 10min like you guys do. Its mental, really think about it for a while - the world if a tough place, but how many of you have actually left the great USA!! The rubbish about hunting for food ?? c'mon give me a break, it cost a couple of bucks to get a cheese burger - your ammo costs more. Also FYI I have worked and lived outside of Oz for the past 15 years - including some pretty rough places in the " middle east" and Africa.

If i hear its not guns that kill people, people kill people one more time I will puke. Sure we kill people in oz but guns crimes are nearly non existent..

Anyway stop shooting people and the world will be a better place.

Cheers,

Lyndsay!1

Ive got a good reason for you westoz. Lets say you come home from a hard days work, to find your family held hostage, your daughter has already been raped, your sons throat slashed, and your wife is next. Would you say please finish up and leave guys, and dont hurt anyone else. guess what your next on the list for breaking up the party ! Thats a chance I am not willing to take. People are murdered, robbed, raped, and beat daily. Just because it has not happened to you yet does not mean it cant happen. Kill or be killed, what you do is your business, I choose to fight for my familys lives and my own.

Thanks for dragging this back out for another round of bitter posts !

I once spent two months in Taiwan installing a machine. The most common questions that I was asked was "how many sons do you have and how many guns do you own?" I found that the more sons you have, the more comfortable retirement you have. For guns, they had a law that, if you are caught with a gun, you die by firing squad...
guns were a big item of interest to them. Then, they quite often asked "what's your opinion regarding knife control?"......didnt quite realize what that meant until I heard that the zealots wanted to outlaw knives among law-abiding citizens. They had a problem with criminals using knives in crimes......"when knives are outlawed, only outlaws will have knives"

all you people who want to take away my rights should put a big sign in your front yard that says THIS IS A GUN FREE HOME DO NOT ENTER. and let us know how that works out for you. just drink another cup of cement and leave my constitutional rights alone thank you ......ted