Thread: I need to bitch

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I’m working on my first build (1942 ford truck, 1952 Flathead 8BA) and things are coming along great. Now I want to build a competitive nitromethane mixed injected Flathead for a front engine dragster. As luck would have it, I’m working with one of the most experienced engine builders who has been racing Flatheads since the 50’s.

I’m also fortunate that he accepts my inexperience with Flatheads and has been guiding me in the build for my 1942 truck engine. Of course as I work on my engine in his shop we talk about the engines that he runs in his dragsters and he passes along information on his race builds.

I spend a lot of time on the web searching out high performance Flathead parts. I found that Crower Cams makes roller lifters and roller cams for the Flathead. Of course my mentor (I think I can call him that) runs hollow adjustable lifters and doesn’t think that the Crower products are beneficial, especially with the high seat pressure required on the lifter to keep it held down against the cam, 165lbs vs. 85-110lbs for solids.

I followed up with Crower Cams and got prices on Flathead lifters and cam. I then emailed them asking if they have other Flathead products and for additional specs on the lifters, such as weight and recommended seat pressure.

Dave Crower emailed me and asked me to call. I wasn’t able to connect with him so I emailed him back and communicated what I was building.

A week passed and I finally got a response from someone else at Crower. They suggested that I find the fuel injection manifold as they are “very rare”. Obviously they don’t keep up on what’s available today. There are probably more Flathead speed parts on the market than ever before, and I can just enter my credit card number, click a button and I’ll have a new Hilborn fuel injection manifold on my doorstep by the end of the week.

Through all my correspondence with Crower the only answer they provided me regarding Flathead roller lifter is “Roller lifters are a racer's preference”. Wow, now I'm sold, ship me 5 sets of each.

I’m sure part of the issue is that I don’t say the magic words that demonstrate that I know what I’m talking about. I found this to be the case with other vendors as well but on the other hand I have found a few that spent the time to talk with me about their products and seem truly interested in what I’m doing. Those are the guys that will get my business.

I also get the same "you need to know what your doing" type responses from some forums, or send me $20k and I'll build you one. I really with those people would provide me with a "why" response instead of just dismissing me, because they have no idea on the commitment I have in getting something done, and done right.

Thanks for letting me bitch,

AndrewB

Hey Andrew, sorry you are going through this garbage, but you are not alone. When I started working on my Nash, there was a local street rod builder who was in the paper and he talked about how he enjoyed helping people get started in the car business. So I went and talked to him about my car and decided to have him fix the back of the car because at some point, it was hit and I could not realign everything. From the beginning, I told him that I wanted to do the work, but there were some things that I could not take care of. Needless to say, the paper article was not exactly truthful. He is a great builder and he would be happy to build whatever for you, but he wouldn't give you any advise on how to do something. I even asked what kind of filler to I should use and he said that he couldn't remember what he uses. For those of us who do not know what we are doing, it can be very hard to get started and it is not because we are looking for someone to do everything for free. For myself, I want to learn everything about building a rod and I have learned a lot already. But I have made mistakes that will cause more work but that is the nature of the beast. I can say that I am fortunate that I have somebody who is excellent on motors, bodywork and paint and he enjoys helping and teaching others. So I guess try not to get bummed or worked up about it, because there are people who are only in it for the $$$ but there are others who are in it for the passion and are willing to help those of us with questions.

Andrew, seems to me that you had an inside track when Dave Crower e-mailed you asking you to call him. When you reverted to general e-mail back to Crower, you got the hired help who are paid to push product, and they are not going to risk recommending things to you - they are used to working with experienced builders who know exactly what they want, and why, to set the parameters for a custom cam application. I would hit "Reply" to the message from Dave Crower, telling him that you were not able to contact him, and asking if there is a good time to call. Just a thought...

I guess some of them are reluctant to give up information becuase they feel like they're giving away a trade secret or competitive edge. I'm just in it for fun and want to learn as much as I can in order to make the right decisions but it feels like I'm re-inventing the wheel at times. As far as manufactures, it seems like it would be in their best interest to educate their customers a little on their products.

AndrewB

Roger,

I guess that's part of the issue, I'm not an experienced builder, but would like to be someday. It's nice to find sites, like this one, and people that recognize the importance of sharing information.

AndrewB

Andrew, when you say:
"I also get the same "you need to know what your doing" type responses from some forums, or send me $20k and I'll build you one. I really with those people would provide me with a "why" response instead of just dismissing me, because they have no idea on the commitment I have in getting something done, and done right."

This response is quite common on the forums and in real life with the manufacturers/racers/and other professionals in the business. To give you some background, many of the forums have a constant stream of people who present themselves as those who have a legit project and the funds for such.....and they turn out to be something else. When someone asks about some specifics regarding building a supercharged fuel flathead, the alarm is triggered in most of our heads....is this guy serious? That spawns a bunch of replies about the high cost, etc.

I was friends with a ProStock racer in the 70's (will not mention names). Whenever he was in public, he was constantly harrassed with questions about race cars...most of the questions were pretty dumb. He was much more patient that I would have been. However, when you get a kid that is 18 telling you that he is building a race hemi or is going to spend his lawn mowing money to buy a minor part to build that race hemi, it makes the pro want to slap the kid into his senses.....we all dream about the bucks up stuff be we shouldnt be wasting other people's valuable time by presenting the project as more than a dream.

I'm not saying that you are dreaming; rather I am trying to explain that the cam guys, the forum guys, and whatever are pounded by questions and they have a difficult time separating the people like yourself with a real project (and with the money to pull it off) from the tire kickers. Most of the time, intelligent, concise questions help convey to the pros that you have done your research, intend to go forward, and are real.

Asking a question like "I'm buiilding a top fuel dragster to set the national record and I need to know the color of the parachute to use" will get you a bunch of rebuffs.

Hope this helps.

Mike in Tucson

Hi Mike,

I agree, part of being new is asking intelligent questions, not something I'll always be able to so they may be a bit generic. Also, being new to a forum, you don't have the history with the members so they are not sure exactly sure where you're coming from. I haven't posted any info or pictures of my current flathead build, which would probably help.

AndrewB

understand what your going thru, very few people take time to talk to some guy with a 283 sbc

The 283 was my first V-8. I dropped it in a Vega.