Thread: A Bad Crash

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Originally Posted by ford2custom

It may get to the point that our old cars will have to have a roll cage if we are going to drive them with today’s traffic on long runs.

Richard

Richard, I understand your point and agree that it is a scary place out on the highways at times.

But I have spent many hours thinking about the safety of "street driving" a car with an "aftermarket" roll bar/roll cage (due to my interest in fast VW''s). The issue is that the driver in a race car is required to have an approved and dated safety helmet and five point harness when racing the car. That same car and driver when operated "on the street" is done so without a helmet and maybe just a seat belt. IMO, I feel that more injuries could be caused to the driver/passenger (without a helmet) by hitting the rollbar/cage in an accident. The minor amount of NHRA required padding, and the odds of the driver/passenger not having a five point safety harness on while driving on the street are high in causing more injuries. You cannot allow the driver to move around in the car for safety, not the best for comfort while driving on the street.

It's just not an easy answer to improve the roll over safety of our roadsters.

Ken, If you ever find out what caused the wreck, post it up here so that we can all be aware of the type thing that causes these accidents. It had to have been a complete failure of something.

Originally Posted by volksrod

Ken, If you ever find out what caused the wreck, post it up here so that we can all be aware of the type thing that causes these accidents. It had to have been a complete failure of something.

I will eventually find out what really happened and I will post it, with his consent.
Ken

Originally Posted by John Palmer

First lets cut "the owner" some slack here, or at least until he heals back up and is out of the hospital. That's a pretty strong "second hand information statement" from someone that does not have the nerve to "sign their own post", IMO.

This was a well built car, that has run well into the 8's, at close to 160MPH in the quarter mile. The car has been around for a long time and all that have seen it agree, it's was impressive. It was not a thrown together car with marginal design, and equipment. I for one, and I'd bet ALL THE BUILDERS on this site are very interested to find out what really caused this crash, road conditions, a component failure, or maybe a driver error, maybe a combination of all three? We all need to learn from this and build better and safer cars. We might even find that he lived through this accident "because of the lower cage" built into the car only time will tell.

In any case lets not start pointing fingers, this site is better than that.

Wow.... this site is certainly better than your response IMHO.
as I said: "I wish him a speedy and full recovery, but also hope the true reason for the crash is addressed." I don't concider that "pointing fingers".

OC (Russ if you prefer)

I read about this crash and several others on some other forums. Seems there have been a rash of hot rod accidents real recently. I feel terrible for the people involved and wish them a speedy recovery. Steel can be fixed, but people sometimes don't.

I agree with Ken that I have a deep respect for what can happen in one of these cars when something goes wrong. They are light, don't have crumple zones, air bags, and all the modern safety features today's cars have. Plus, they are dwarfed by some of the SUV's and trailer trucks on the road. Every time I go on the interstate to some event I say silent prayers all the way that we get home safely. I keep looking over at one of my Sons in the shotgun seat and thinking how terrible it would be if something bad happened. When something goes wrong in one of these cars it happens in the blink of an eye.

All we can do is make sure our cars are built as well as possible, are maintained (steering, brakes, tires, etc) and that we drive them in a sensible, alert manner. You have to drive defensively and maybe at speeds slower than the other cars on the road, just so you have time to react.

I wish everyone involved in these accidents well.

Don

Those pictures remind me of my father in law's car after the my nephew lost control of his roadster on a slick street last year. He was lucky to walk away since he and a friend were ejected from the vehicle near a stand of trees.

I pray that the guy has a full recovery, cars can be fixed or rebuilt, but not so much the human body and brain.

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

I read about this crash and several others on some other forums. Seems there have been a rash of hot rod accidents real recently. I feel terrible for the people involved and wish them a speedy recovery. Steel can be fixed, but people sometimes don't.

I agree with Ken that I have a deep respect for what can happen in one of these cars when something goes wrong. They are light, don't have crumple zones, air bags, and all the modern safety features today's cars have. Plus, they are dwarfed by some of the SUV's and trailer trucks on the road. Every time I go on the interstate to some event I say silent prayers all the way that we get home safely. I keep looking over at one of my Sons in the shotgun seat and thinking how terrible it would be if something bad happened. When something goes wrong in one of these cars it happens in the blink of an eye.

All we can do is make sure our cars are built as well as possible, are maintained (steering, brakes, tires, etc) and that we drive them in a sensible, alert manner. You have to drive defensively and maybe at speeds slower than the other cars on the road, just so you have time to react.

I wish everyone involved in these accidents well.

Don

So well put Don and all so John Palmer, Thankyou both for reminding us all that at the end of the day, a fellow rodder/rodders have recently been hurt in accidents that no one would wish on their own loved ones,so lets stop the blame game and pray for those people and their families for speedy recoveries. Until my health problems I was a professional truck semi driver and know all about wind gusts and sadly all about idiots on the roads. Lets all be safe out there please!!!

Originally Posted by Steves32

This has a chassis build by pro stock builder Gary Hanson so I doub't it was unstable.
From what I heard- the wind blew hard & he dropped a rear tire on the dirt shoulder & lost it.

Cars dropping a tire off the should and the driver trying to correct it putting it into a roll happens every day in the US. Most drivers instinct is to get the car back on the road as quick as possible, making erradic reactions (over correcting), and upsetting the car badly. The correct maneuver is to drive the whole car (or at least both wheels of that side) off of the road, slow the vehicle down, and re-enter the road way at a controllable speed. The drop off between hard surface and a gravel shoulder will grab a tire/wheel and jerk it, thus losing control of the car. I am not positive this is what happened in this wreck as i have no idea, but windy day, pushing him slightly off the road, the circumstances sure add up to this situation.

That all surely does not explain why the entire front end is off the car, but a hard enough roll, anything can happen to even the best built chassis. (go to youtube and find the clip of Ryan Newmann's rearend coming out of his car at Daytona a few years back).

Glad he is going to make it, cars can be fixed. Drive safe, anything can happen out there.

Originally Posted by John Palmer

Richard, I understand your point and agree that it is a scary place out on the highways at times.

But I have spent many hours thinking about the safety of "street driving" a car with an "aftermarket" roll bar/roll cage (due to my interest in fast VW''s). The issue is that the driver in a race car is required to have an approved and dated safety helmet and five point harness when racing the car. That same car and driver when operated "on the street" is done so without a helmet and maybe just a seat belt. IMO, I feel that more injuries could be caused to the driver/passenger (without a helmet) by hitting the rollbar/cage in an accident. The minor amount of NHRA required padding, and the odds of the driver/passenger not having a five point safety harness on while driving on the street are high in causing more injuries. You cannot allow the driver to move around in the car for safety, not the best for comfort while driving on the street.

It's just not an easy answer to improve the roll over safety of our roadsters.

Most of these old cars, and new cars even, have PLENTY of room between the exterior steel body panels and the interior panels to allow for a roll cage to be built in to them with minor modifications. I am building a '49 chevy pick up that i plan on having a full roll cage in, and it won't be visible (removeable door bars). The only thing that will stand out to people that look closely will be where the A-pillar has an upholstered covering over the roll bar because that is the only place that there is not room to easily "hide" the cage. I am taking it farther than it needs to be in most cars. most simply need a loop that goes up the B-pillar, across the roof and back down the other B-pillar (behind the front passenger doors). Then a bar to brace it at a 45 degree angle going back (below window level). It'll take some fab work, but we are building these cars from the ground up, so it really shouldn't be a problem. they don't need full halo's and full cages like they are race cars, but a roll bar would surely help a ton.

wow, once again missed athread while on vacation. Glad your friend is doing better.Make me want to check every bolt again before I hit the street.

Another One


http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...NEWS/100420050
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Ahh Ken, All these roadster crash reports are getting depressing! Guess I need to sell my roadster and build "a safe" car like a Corvair or Pinto, just kidding.

Here's "a former" crash update and some GOOD news. I'm guessing it was about two or three years ago you posted some photos on CHR of one of your club member's roadster that was involved in a crash near Long Beach. It was also a "bright yellow" roadster just like the one that crashed going home from the Del Mar GG's show.

So I'm at the Orange Plaza Car Show on Sunday walking around after I get parked looking at all of the nice cars. I start asking this guy questions about his car. And it turns out to be the same car that was involved in the earlier roll over accident. I told him I remembered the photos and said to myself "never paint a roadster YELLOW" after looking at the two crashed yellow cars, we both had a laugh on that one. The car was completely rebuilt and looked beautiful. The car was originally a Brizo built roadster with a Sid Chavers interior so you know it was a top knoch car. Not sure who rebuilt it, but they did a great job and you would never know it was involved in such a serious accident.

At the time of the original crash we all speculated about THE WHY, or reason for the crash. The general concern was because the front axle was torn off the car and we were concerned about the possibility of a part failure since many of us use the same suspension parts. What he told me was another car made a quick lane change into his lane and he swerved to avoid the crash and went off the embankment and rolled over. He was seriously "banged up" but thankfully lived through the accident. The good news was, it was "an accident" and not caused by a part failure in his opinion.

Lets all be safe cruising.

I think one contributing factor as to why we are seeing a "rash" of these is because we rodders are starting to actually drive our cars more. I remember a time not so long ago that you rarely saw a hot rod or custom type car on the roads, but now there seem to be more and more. In addition to driving them MORE, we are also driving them FARTHER than before. How many of us think nothing of jumping in and driving 2-3-400 or more miles to some event?

In essence, our rods are not much more than 4 wheel Harleys and we know how many bikes are involved in wrecks. I have had more than one driver come into my lane because they were too busy staring at my car or some other distraction. Statistically though, I think the number of rods that have a problem are a very small part of the total number that frequent the roads. All we can do is drive sanely, respect the vulnerability of our cars, and keep our eyes open at all times and look for an out if something goes wrong.

I don't think a roll cage or bar is the answer, because as mentioned, if you have even bumped your unhelmeted head on one, you know how that would feel in a rollover.

Don

John- What a coincidence, his name is Greg. The same guy fixed it I believe, it really came out nice. He says that's what happened He really was lucky, no seat belt, got thrown out and landed in a tree.
I wear seat belts all the time no matter what I'm driving, but sometimes I wonder if it would be better to take the chance of being thrown out instead of going over in the car???? I personally think he would of been killed if he were wearing a seat belt. those photo's are still on here.

Don- I agree with you, there are just a whole lot more hot rods out there it's just numbers now as for as accidents go. I drove my roadster today, and got rained on on the way home, but I look in my mirrors more than in front of me. I have seen what one of these things looks like when it gets rear ended, it ain't pretty. That's why we need lots of horsepower, to drive away from a possible accident and great brakes if we can't.

Ken

Think I would much rather bang my head on a roll bar than the ground