Thread: Gas Prices for 2011

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Originally Posted by 1gary

So what your saying is you want to control how much another country can set the price for selling a product ? .........that seems fair...........one country can control another for their benefit..........isn't that like bullying?

Nope.I disagree with you about bullying.I do think it is time for us to think of us first.No more a consideration for what the other countries might think.If they are continuing to stick into our butts,in return we can remind them we CAN make their oil rich lands glow for all time.I think you have to think about all these funds are getting to a very very few rich and the rest are very,very,poor.A act like that is human rights of the first order.[/QUOTE]

But, problem here is how do you control something you don't own? It would be like if they came here and decided they are going to take control of your town or city................it's not worth starting a war over.It seems like Irag,oil is more important then people,or "casualties" ,as there called these days,any excuse to start a war or invasion is usually the wishes of a few rich people who stand to make big$$$$,and to hell with everyone else!
I agree with Dave Severson.the middle east have fought among themselves for years and will most likely continue to do so, so let them battle it out.

Throwing us a bone today. dropped .02 to $3.47.

Originally Posted by pro70z28

Throwing us a bone today. dropped .02 to $3.47.

Thats to make you feel better,cos it will jump another 6c in a day or two,like it does here,,in fact did again yesterday..Diesel,$1.56/litre..95 octane,$2.18/litre...91,$2.08/litre...

Remember the days when I could find a few pop bottles, cash them in, ride my mini bike to the filling station, fill the gas tank and ride all day long! I think the lowest I ever remember gas was .29 cents a gallon. Sure miss those days!

Gees, I remember a bunch of us scrapping together 50 cents and driving around town for hours, but then you could buy a bottle of pop and a bag of chips for 10 cents also,haha

Originally Posted by Oldmanb

But, problem here is how do you control something you don't own?

You see, that's the problem. There are fellows out there who are controlling the price of oil through futures speculation. Individual countries do not control the price of oil that they sell on the free market. Oil futures speculators set the price of a barrel of oil through futures speculation. I want to say this several different times so that it is perfectly clear. SPECULATORS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU HAVING TO PAY SUCH PRICES FOR GASOLINE. They own nothing. They never take delivery of the futures contracts that they speculate on.

Matter of fact, there was some banter in Congress a while back about requiring speculators to take delivery of the oil in the futures contracts. Oil took a nosedive. These a**holes have no intention of taking delivery of the oil they speculate on and some of them must have gotten to some of our congressmen with a handful of dough, because that's the last I ever heard of the idea of taking delivery.

You want to do something for yourself and everyone else? Email your Congressman and both your Senators. Tell them to force oil speculators to take delivery. Email 'em several times a day, every day. Send 'em letters. I've already nailed my Republican Congressman (newly elected) to the cross for allowing funds to be cut to homeless veterans. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. I told him if he wants to cut spending, to put a hiring freeze on all federal government positions. Let natural attrition thin the herd.

I don't know if my emails to my elected officials make any difference or not, but I know one thing, if I and others don't do it, they will continue to do as they damned well please. If we have to throw the whole bunch of 'em out in 2012, then LET IT HAPPEN.

The last time gas prices spiked I said the same thing about the speculators and of course most of the liberal crowd laid all of the blame on big oil. Now it wouldn't surprise me if big oil had a few of their own in the mix, but I believe most of them are BA majors who probably never held a real job in their life. If I had any control over it I'd round up all of the SOB's and castrate "em.

As we've seen in recent news events, the names people are called are opportunistic for the moment and the underlying purpose. Well, actually, it's not just recent news, it's always. I will say it again, even though I'm sure most roll their eyes, these are distractions intended to misdirect attention from the real source of the issue at hand.

So called "speculators" (a demonizing term coined by the real mischief makers) are called "commodities traders" when the price is going down. Just so you understand the rules, when prices go up the scape goats are called "speculators", when prices go down, they're the innocuous term, "commodities traders" while others take credit for the "good" outcome. For those of you of a certain persuasion, a corrollary would be, "evil groups" are referred to as "radical" (as in "radical right wing"), and their opponents are referred to as "experts", "Nobel prize winners", "citizen groups", "consumer protection groups", and so on (the word "rights" is often a key indicator of impending obfuscation).

Commodities traders are in the business of predicting future price affecting factors, thus the alternate term "futures traders". The farmer will often sell his crop to the futures/commodities trader to assure himself the ability to repay the loans he takes to plant and raise his crop. When the commodities traders guess wrong and the price drops, the farmer grins and brags about "beating the system". When the commodities trader guesses right, the farmer (some anyway) whines that he got "cheated", even though he entered the agreement with eyes open believing he got the best outcome for his circumstances. The commodities trader never takes delivery of the corn, soy beans, pork bellies, whatever. To impose that sort of encumbrance will ultimately hurt the farmer (in this example), and ultimately the consumer, more than it will hurt the evil "speculator". Basically they're another form of financing for markets. Their activity gives the farmer (though they are active in all forms of commodities) confidence to continue in his farming endeavor, and assures the producer of some level of profitability with reduced risk. The commodities broker assumes a greater share of the risk, and when they guess right, risk equals reward. When prices go down, often a commodities trader will take a hit......................but you never see that headline on the evening news.......not as good a story.

"Speculators" haven't restricted drilling for crude in the Gulf of Mexico, off the coasts of Alaska, California, Florida, and most of the eastern shores of our continent. "Speculators" haven't artificially constricted the market by bad decisions that prohibit energy production through nuclear, coal, and petroleum production. "Speculators" haven't created the Energy Department that spends tens of BILLIONS of dollars per year for the past 35 years with the stated goal of REDUCING our dependance on "foreign oil"...............they've really accomplished that goal haven't they? If the EVIL speculators haven't caused all these obstructions, maybe, just maybe, the real culprits are the ones that those of you who attack the private sector are parroting, albeit I would guess unwittingly. I don't know how to sugar coat it......................stop buying into the distractions!!!

Something else I want to get off my chest. My truck is sitting in the same spot it was 2 weeks ago. I refuse to buy gas. Period. I'll bite the bullet up to $2.99, but when it goes over $3.00, I'm done. I do my banking and bill-paying online, so the only time I need to leave the house is to go for groceries. I have a daily ritual of walking for one hour and my route takes me right by the nearest grocery store. If some of the fat-asses I see in the grocery would start walking to the store every day or every other day, the price of gas would come down. On the way home, I do curls and lifts with the bag of groceries, so it is part of my exercise routine.

You have to remember also, that it isn't only the gas you use that affects supply and demand. Everything in your home, your business and your vehicles was brought to you by a TRUCK. That means that as fuel goes up, EVERYTHING ELSE goes up as well. The truck owner is forced to pay more for diesel and must pass the additional expense on to the consumer (that would be you).

So, you have a choice. You can continue to placate those who profit from oil or you can rearrange your lifestyle and become more independent. If you still have to travel to get to work, consider a ten-speed bike or at the least, a 125-250 cc used motorcycle that will get 60-80 miles per gallon. Afraid of being killed in traffic? Take alternate routes where there is less traffic, slow down, leave a little earlier to go to work. There are ways to adjust to high fuel prices folks, you just have to think outside the box. Or you can just keep driving your guzzler and putting up with it.

Its hard to text riding a motorcycle on the side streets

Yuppers, maybe supply and demand would still work???? My "shop" (ok, a garage) is 20 paces out the back door of the house, grocery store is across the street.

As Uncle Bob mentioned, the real guilty parties in the oil fiasco and so many other things are very, very good at blaming someone else and getting the media to buy into the feeding frenzy!!!!!! As long as we continue to buy into the "blame game" the guilty parties go unpunished. Just like a magician, the bad guys want to keep you focused on the distraction so they can get away with their tricks!!!!!!!

I hate the traffic on the way to work. Sometimes the cat just sits there and I have to walk around him.

Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

"Speculators" haven't restricted drilling for crude in the Gulf of Mexico, off the coasts of Alaska, California, Florida, and most of the eastern shores of our continent. "Speculators" haven't artificially constricted the market by bad decisions that prohibit energy production through nuclear, coal, and petroleum production. "Speculators" haven't created the Energy Department that spends tens of BILLIONS of dollars per year for the past 35 years with the stated goal of REDUCING our dependance on "foreign oil"...............they've really accomplished that goal haven't they? If the EVIL speculators haven't caused all these obstructions, maybe, just maybe, the real culprits are the ones that those of you who attack the private sector are parroting, albeit I would guess unwittingly. I don't know how to sugar coat it......................stop buying into the distractions!!!

Thanks Bob, always good to have you weigh in with your contribution of common sense.

I would question though, if the problems really are as you stated in the above paragraph, why the price of oil hasn't been steadily up. It's up, it's down, it's up, it's down. We're awash with oil. We're out of oil. We're awash with oil. We're out of oil. That's not how the extraction of oil happens, too much one day and not enough the next day. There is a steady supply of oil from OPEC, so I can't see how it could be as you said in closing. If the supply is fairly steady and the consumption is fairly steady, then it must be some fat cats manipulating the price.

I am aware of the practice of hedging by farmers, but dag nab it, they have something to risk, their crop. Oil speculators have no such commodity at risk, they're just gambling for a profit from my wallet.

Just for grins, I'd like to see Representative Boehner call a news conference and state that Congress is considering a delivery clause. Unless I miss my guess, you'd see oil come down in a hurry.

Bob, I could be full of beans and you could be dead on the money, but that's what makes the world revolve. If all of us agreed on everything, there would be a need for only one political party.

Richard, the best word to answer your quiestion is EMOTION. Part of the answer relavant to my most recent commentary is on the previous page. The futures guys are uncertain about the future, particularly as it applies to Saudi Arabia in regards to oil. The rapid fluctuations in the market actually prove my point. The commodities trader who bought contracts at (using arbitrary figures for ease) at $105 on Tuesday, effectively lost his butt on Wednesday when the futures market dropped to $98. If he's manipulating for personal gain he's got it wrong. On Tuesday they believed, and acted accordingly, that doom and gloom was at some heightened level. On Wednesday, conditions changed enough to soften the concern. Now, in reality, those same traders were probably active on both days so if they got "hurt" at all, they softened the blow by averageing their future commitments down. To go back to the farmer analogy (easier to understand, less emotional) the farmer sells at the beginning of the season to the commodity broker. If the weather goes contrary to expectations, the farmer still gets paid and the trader takes the hit. That's the risk they assume. The farmer gets less for his crop (perhaps) than he might have, but he has less risk because he gets a "guaranteed" price that has a profit margin. Same for other commodities.

If government force a "delivery" provision, then traders would likely exit the market. That would give the producers a higher level of risk, and some might choose not to take a risk if they judge the risk level to be too high. That in turn would reduce production, shifting the supply/demand curve and thus raising prices. In the '70s the government imposed price caps which led to the unintended consequence of lower supply, lines, and rationing. Only when the controls were removed did the market return and the ines /rationing go away. Dumb ideas that sound good cause more grief than the free market acting in it's sometimes frustrating, but ultimately more efficient way.

Originally Posted by pro70z28

I hate the traffic on the way to work. Sometimes the cat just sits there and I have to walk around him.

Pro,thats just ONE of the problems that we,who work at home,have to put up with...take a deep breath and keep walkin brother..