Thread: So That's a Traditional Hot Rod????

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Wow!!! We haven't had one of these kinds of threads in quite awhile. I might have to swear some of you into the curmudgeon clublette...............

Thank you for some kind words Dave, and a small correction of sorts. The one car that is most like a "traditional" rod I didn't build, I only had the good sense to appreciate and acquire. It just touched me as a neat piece.

It's a shame that we've lost some of the old threads from a decade or so ago when this kind of discussion was more prevalent. My recollection is that in one of them while I lamented the "I know more about what's traditional than you do...." thing that some of the young hacks were expressing, I also suggested that these young guys probably weren't much different than we were at a similar time in life's progression. We didn't know what we didn't know, and were proud (and foolish enough) to demonstrate that for all to see. I suggested that some of them would play with cars for awhile and in time lose interest and chase the "next cool thing". Others, particularly those with good mechanical/fabrication skills, and a sense of artistry, would go through a succession of cars, each getting better than the one before. In time, the most talented of these would be producing some very fine examples of the hot rod "art". Not exactly a bold or smart prediction on my part, I cheated, I looked at history and study human nature. We are pretty predictable, well most of us anyway, at a basic level.

You guys have hit on enough material that a book could be written around your outline, but I'm not so motivated, so will hit on a couple notions. The other day I was reading an online discussion about what heresy it would be to take a genuine "barn find" old rod and fix it up. "Leave the patina (yup, some words end up becoming meaningless by abuse), some were saying. Others who valued the history less poo-poo'd that line. In my mind I began to wonder if the folks in the high end art world had similar disagreements for example. I'm sure they did/do/will. Wouldn't it be a shame if the folks charged with keeping the Mona Lisa didn't continually "refurbish" the painting while keeping it in highly atmospheric control to check the ravages of time? But then, wouldn't we lose something if we tried to restore the arms on the Venus D'Milo? And all those thoughts before having my evening toddy........

Labels have uses, they help us communicate full ideas in short hand, but they require some knowledge of a subject. Ham sandwich as an example. If the restaurant didn't use that label, and the patron didn't have some fore knowledge of what it was, and we all agreed on what that short hand description meant, what a time wasting exercise it would be to both order one, and to provide it. "Yes sir, well ham is from the hind thigh of a pig. Do you know what a pig is sir, or will I need to explain that as well. Okay then...............". Unfortunately in our rush about, don't confuse me with facts, I don't have time to think about that, hey it's not my fault, world we don't respect definitions as much as could be useful today. I'll stop that particular rant here. As a result, some terms have lost their succinct meaning and become a loose umbella for some "all inclusive" realm...............especially if it's one we choose not to understand very well.

Anyway, there are now (and hopefully will be) some very talented young guys who have appreciation for cars that some of us older guys grew up desiring, admiring, and in some cases possessing. Back to the personal, in retrospect, most of what I've done with our hobby in the past 20 years or so has been some variation on the theme, "What would I have done with this car if I'd had it in high school? If I had developed skills and knowledge?". And while I admire folks who adapt modern technology,e.g. electronic fuel injection, it doesn't fit my personal template. And I'm not too rigid on the rules either. The '36 3w looks like a kid's first or second car from the early '60s, but I've chosen radial tires for ride purposes. And I'm not trying to open up the radial vs. bias argument, I've got bias on the '30 roadster, and they'll be on the '30 pre-war style banger coupe too. Fenderless cars sort of put you in that box if you're trying to be mostly accurate in your simulation of a certain period. But then, the '36 roadster is pretty generic, last third century hot rod theme. Independent front suspension, anti-sway bars, auto trans, but with timeless upholstery and paint themes. A qualifier here; we in hot rod land like to claim there are no rules so we do what we feel is "right" in our self expression. Well, rules no, but there are conventions. For instance, big tires in the back, smaller in front, but NEVER the other way around. You can probably think of many more. I never got into the pastel late '80s through '90s with Boyd's wheels, swoopy sculpted interior panels, and all the rest of that set of fads. I go with the basics that seem to endure and don't quite limit the car to any short period but are more like "last third of the 20th century" kind of thing. It's my thing, obviously lots of others have different tastes..........as it should be.

Ah, that's enough of that for now. Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff. Or........................

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Ugly and lacking paint I can deal with, especially on a works in progress car. It's the guys who try to convince me that it's how they all used to look 'back in the day' that gives me grief!!! Ain't nothing ugly about your's anyway, just need to keep tweaking on it til you get it where you like it...

that back-in-the-day crap drives me batty.
my grampa would have been on new technology like stink on poop.
stronger,lighter,faster,better mpg?
heck yeah!

From Websters website.
Traditional:
1 a : based on a way of thinking, behaving, or doing something that has been used by the people in a particular group, family, society, etc., for a long time : following the tradition of a certain group or culture
▪ It is traditional to eat turkey and cranberry sauce on Thanksgiving.

So compared to eating turkey, "traditional hot-rodding" is when all sit around the garage an tell BS stories about days they know nothing of because they are too young?

So if the LS engine was available in 1960, the rodder of that time would refuse to use it because it was too new? Seems to me (that I remember from the sixties), all types of engines and transmissions were used especially because they were new! I remember guys putting Buick V6's in their T buckets cause they fit nice and had good power to weight ratio. Now you get evil looks if you use a 4.3L V6 or a 3.4L V6 from these so called traditional guys that are half your age.
That is hypocritical!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

My cars don't get classified, they're just my cars!!!!! Same classification all of mine have had since my first build.

Same here! It seems "everyone else" has to put my car into a box. I just say it is what it is and no, it ain't done!

Traditional...? built in the early 60`s, 265 with original 2/4 intake with rochesters....3 spd...

Originally Posted by billy zz

i have been looking all over for a tiny heater/ac combo
and once it is insulated i have every intention of having tunes as well.
as far as rust goes.
it doesnt on my cars.
i broke my back getting rid of what some refer to as patina.

Vintage Air Gen ll compact. Heat/air/defrost is optional (but understand the pain of the installation in a small bodied car and under dash area)

very well said uncle bob.

Thanks Dave now I have to paint the Nova. Usualy I don't they sell better when the person who buys them gets to pick the color.

Great thread topic. My idea of a hot rod isn't based on the "traditional rod" of the late fifties early sixties, because I wasn't around then to have a clew what I'm talking about today! So instead I refer to the truck as a hot rod, only because it will be sporting mags, and a much more powerfull engine then when it was stock. In my youth hotrods were really muscle cars for the most part, and most of them were jacked up, not lowered. So I guess with my history that is the direction I'm headed with my truck, but "muscle car" doesn't fit a 48 Ford F1, with a '71 460 /c6 powertrain. I prefer it not to be a rat rod since I truely am attempting to make it look nice(body work clean and eventually new paint), so I guess "Hot Rod" is the best term to use when describing it to friends and coworkers, since they get what that means. Of course I could go the "politically correct" route and call it "an old truck, with a 1971 Ford 460, slightly high performance, with a c6 tranny, modified front disc brakes, 9"rear axle out of a 68 Ford econoline, with aftermarket aluminum radiator and gas tank, new autometer gauges and B&M shifter, with slot mags and eventually radial tires," but most people seem to glaze over before I get that far!

Bob, you are a gentleman, a scholar, and a bullshit artist. The world needs more of us. And I'm kinda with your line of thinking. I don't really like the labels. I don't own anything that "I" would consider a traditional hot rod. I've got the Rat Rod label thrown on my International/???, and it kinda irks me sometimes. It Ain't perfect but it Ain't ratty. Yeah if it wasn't for the rats I probably never would have hacked up that International and Ford cab into what you have seen. I just build what I can afford, and both the "Half Rat" and my RPU were kinda built for a time feel. IE the Closed cab truck is kinda what I remember from a late 60's street/strip rod. The 28 RPU is my late 50's thing. I was born in 57, so I thought what if I started building this in 57 thru high school. Not period correct but just the feel. I wish I had the talent, the patience, and the money to build one period perfect, and constructed with what was available at the time to the average guy, materials, parts, and tools as well. I think it would be a real leering experience and challenge.

Regarding my previous post. I hope I got no ones hackles up. As in my legal disclaimer, it's just my opinion, not aimed at anyone, and not to be taken too seriously by anyone. Like I said I'm only 54, wasn't alive then, so what the heck do I know..................

Originally Posted by dlotraf33

Like I said I'm only 54, wasn't alive then, so what the heck do I know..................

more then most, my friend.....more then most!!!!!

Dave is such a dreamy guy!

Originally Posted by flh4speed

Dave is such a dreamy guy!

Where ya been, man??? Ya still have that dang bug crawling on your screen!!!!

We get yelled at by antiquers for hot roding "good " cars instead of restoring them to original, Now we are getting yelled at by Traditionalist for hot rodding " good" cars instead of remaking them with outdated parts.

My dad replaced the flatty in the '35 with a 283, 3 speed, 3 dueces, '55 chevy rear, etc. It was in primer and never painted, but the plan was to paint it eventually. This was about '59-'62. I'm too young to know for sure, but that sounds like the traditional definition of "traditional". Did my dad think in 1959 he was building a traditional rod? Nope. He was building what he could afford and what he wanted. He could have replaced the flathead with another (block cracked), but chose something that had under 10,000 miles from a junk yard with more power off the bat.

That to me is exactly what we are doing now while rebuilding it. We took out the 283 because it had been sitting for decades and chose to use the LT1 I had with only 80k miles on it..plenty to get us through tens of thousands of more miles with about 300hp and 25mpg on the highway (mpg being a newer factor on the mind these days probably). We are using the overdrive 6 speed because that is what is hanging on the LT1 just like the 3 speed was stuck to the 283. Am I claiming we are building it as a traditional rod? Of course not, but I do think we are building it with the same thought process as someone from the 60's. How do I know? because my build partner was a senior in high school in 1959 when he bought the car.

A 70's t bucket with brass all over and big wide tires could be considered traditional over the new low riding ones. The problem with the term traditional is that since we are not all the same age, we have different definitions. For me, sadly, traditional could be considered those pastel 80's cars with tires sticking outside the fenders. As in Dave's first post, most would agree a 60's styled hot rod is traditional, but that is only because those still alive that paved the way say it is. I am on the lookout for a 30-34 Ford pick up and I hope to use the 283 with the offy 3 duece manifold, straight axle, wire wheels with radial tires. It will be fairly low budget, but will not be anything close to a rat rod...I have too much pride for that. Will it be traditional? Well I guess I'll have to wait and see what people tell me it is when I'm done