Thread: Craigslist notice??.

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I don't know and don't even claim to understand much of what the government does, but IMO term limits is the place to start. Seems the 'first termers' actually remember the people who sent them there, after that somebody owns them.....

I cannot continue to delete or shut down threads because one person does not agree with another. You are all adults, it's time to start acting like gentleman when you disagree with each other. be respectful about it, and move on.


Bill S.

[QUOTE=mrmustang;451185]I cannot continue to delete or shut down threads because one person does not agree with another. You are all adults, it's time to start acting like gentleman when you disagree with each other. be respectful about it, and move on.


The thing is Bill if I had only realized what was posted on Craigslist was link so I could answer my own question,I never,never would have opened this can of worms in the first place.From my two cents,way too much on stuff that hasn't much to do with hot rods.

On the topic of respect Bill.Dave's ignoring me certainly doesn't fill that def.

I wouldn't want to stop Pipa. She seems like a nice girl.

Oh wait, that's a different forum,,,, sorry..................

Originally Posted by Evolvo

Bob, if a private citizen was to call their congress person, write or sign a petition I suppose it could be seen as lobbying. Using myself as an example, if I did any of these things it would be because I was concerned enough to speak up. Not because I was being paid.
On the other hand, if I worked for Lobby World, Inc. and received financial reward and my full time job was to "persuade" government officials to see things my clients way then I would be a professional lobbyist.
I see a difference between the two.
The answer IMO (which will never happen) is to somehow limit professional lobbying. We as citizens could start a nation wide petition to change the laws regarding full time, paid lobbyists. If this where to happen it would at least take some of the money out of Washington and allow our representatives to listen to the people who actually elected them, not those paid to corrupt them......

The problem, as I see it, is that one cannot legislate away the rights of paid lobbiests without giving up the individual rights of the 1st Amendment which is in that position for a reason - it is one that forms the foundation of our rights. Bob's point, "The problem isn't the act of lobbying, it's the act of the political person accepting some form of quid pro quo, e.g. a bribe, political contribution, a future "job", whatever. The person offering the bribe to someone they believe would accept it isn't a saint, but nothing "bad" happens until the politician accepts and acts on the bribe. THAT is where we need to focus our ire and action...............................not on limiting our rights.", rings true to me. That said, perhaps we need a double edged sword here, taking action not only with the politician who accepts and/or acts on the bribe, but also making the penalty against that lobbiest who initiated the bribe (along with the group he represents, be they individuals or corporations) severe enough that they think twice before they dangle the carrot in the first place. The Federal Corrupt Practices Act deals harshly with companies that cross the line in their foreign and domestic corporate dealings. Why not extend that act to our lobbiests? Active and accurate enforcement might prove to be the Catch 22.

I rarely agree with Bernie Sanders, but in this instance I do.

There was a piece in the Wall Street Journal back in June/July that showwed 50.6% on the public dole! So we had/have more people taking out than putting in! Then they claimed the feds did some "re-organizing" and the number came back down and "disinterested labor" went up! I remembered thinking that it was a joke! Just because you stop looking for work has no bearing if you recieve assistance! Just the opposite in my mind! What better reason to be getting help financially??

Originally Posted by Evolvo

Um, do you have any proof? Where did this number come from? 40% non tax payers seems like a stretch, a very, very long stretch. I'd like to see your source.

Originally Posted by 34_40

There was a piece in the Wall Street Journal back in June/July that showwed 50.6% on the public dole! So we had/have more people taking out than putting in! Then they claimed the feds did some "re-organizing" and the number came back down and "disinterested labor" went up! I remembered thinking that it was a joke! Just because you stop looking for work has no bearing if you recieve assistance! Just the opposite in my mind! What better reason to be getting help financially??

Yeah, I'd say that the ~40% number is low. In 2010 there were 36% of those that filed that showed zero tax liability Number of "Non-paying" Taxpayers Hits Record Level. Add to that those who fail to file for one reason or another and the number is going to be more in the range that Mike points out from his WSJ article.

I don't see that the number of people who filed and had 0 tax liability sez much about the real problems...The article also pointed out that a family of four with $51,000.00 income has a 0 tax liability. Think the problem lies elsewhere. How much more do you really want to tax the average guy with a wife and 4 kids just trying to make a living??? What the heck is wrong with things then $50K a year isn't a decent living??? Income tax isn't the only tax we pay, either. Don't have a clue what the answer is, but I do know that more people paying more taxes will do nothing more then create more spending!!!!! We really need to reign in the size and scope of government, get them the hell out of areas they aren't needed, get rid of bs regulations that cost a small businessman more then his profit margin can cover!!! Those of you who run or have ran your own business know full well how much money it costs you to keep the feds and state government from putting a lock on the door!

Small business and blue collar average income people are what built this country, it's high time to get the government off their backs before they're all broken!!!!! Big business and big government just seem to go hand in hand, they both tend to just get every thing all screwed up. Bring the jobs back that we shipped overseas, get people back to work for a decent wage (not $9.00/hour), cut the size and scope of government interference in business, and go to some sort of flat tax system that effects everyone the same way. A guy on minimum wage can't afford to even live decent now, don't lay more taxes on him!!!!

What I was stressing in my post was the more than half of America was on assistance! Meaning LESS than half are footing the bill!!!

I do remember that when I started working full time. My income taxes would be paid by the end of March!

I agree with you Dave, and like you I don't have the answer... I just don't like our direction and have never voted for any incumbent! That is my only answer!

Originally Posted by 34_40

What I was stressing in my post was the more than half of America was on assistance! Meaning LESS than half are footing the bill!!!
I do remember that when I started working full time. My income taxes would be paid by the end of March!
I agree with you Dave, and like you I don't have the answer... I just don't like our direction and have never voted for any incumbent! That is my only answer!

What I remember is that by about the end of March my Social Security/FICA payments had hit the limit for the year, so from that point forward my check was a little bit bigger, but they took income tax out of every one, to the bitter end of the year.
I don't claim to have the answers, either, but I strongly believe that our Federal Tax System needs to be totally revamped, and something like a flat tax applied equally to everyone above a minimum standard of living income makes sense to me.

I was never a big employer, never more then 5 guys but the taxes, insurance, regulatory compliance, and just having Big Brother hanging over my shoulder was one of the reasons I sold out. Just got tired of giving every dang thing I made go to taxes, insurance, licenses, fees, you name it!!!! Just around here I've watched a dozen other shops close up for the same reason. That revenue and those jobs are just gone, they won't come back unless things change a whole lot!!!!! With everything it cost in just FICA, Witholding, Workmen's Comp, etc. couldn't even afford to pay a guy what he really deserved..... I think it's just a damn shame that a small business has to pay such a huge 'penalty' just for the privilege of providing employees with a decent income and a decent place to work..... The last year I had the shop I paid myself $11,000.00.----it just isn't worth the hassle for chump change like that!!!!!!

Footnote: one of the guys who worked for me was Mr. Reliable, could fabricate, weld, body work, paint, wiring, you name it. Paid him $23.00/hr. When I closed, he went to work here locally as a welder, after being their 4 years now he's making $17.00/hr...

Another thing I've noticed, all the little "spies" running around just more then willing to turn in anyone who might make a buck or ten "on the side" because they're not paying taxes on it!!!!!

The USA is not a Democracy, this shows the failure of the education system of the country. The USA has a Representative government. True Democracy would and is chaos think about it.

evolvo

Yeah man you really nailed me there on that 40% show you proof I do not have to FYI. However it is more in the 50% range actually. That make you feel better?

Originally Posted by 34_40

What I was stressing in my post was the more than half of America was on assistance! Meaning LESS than half are footing the bill!!!

I do remember that when I started working full time. My income taxes would be paid by the end of March!

I agree with you Dave, and like you I don't have the answer... I just don't like our direction and have never voted for any incumbent! That is my only answer!

Yeah, I remember hearing 10 or 15 years ago that when the baby boomers hit Social Security age there would be more payees then payers.....and of course nothing was done about it! Many had a really good retirement accumulated in their 401K plans but when the stock market 'adjusted' during the bailout fiasco, most of them lost tons of money and are now trying to figure out how the heck they're going to live on a Social Security check.... I was smart, though!!!!!!! I invested all my money in Hot Rods, Project Cars, Future Project Cars, equipment, and tools!!!!! I just keep losing a little on every deal and trying to make it up in volume!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

.... I just keep losing a little on every deal and trying to make it up in volume!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, the volume should make the difference, Dave!! A buddy sent me what was called "The Five Great Truths", or I've seen it as "The Five Best Quotes" and "The Five Best Sentences You'll Ever Read". Regardless, and all politics aside, as I look through them I cannot find fault with any of the five:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
We're cheating really, really close to the tipping point on #5, and I pray that we find our path before we get to that point.