Thread: tin-man has some questions, it begins.....

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[QUOTE=Arrowhead;456405]

The slot car handling and 2100# curb weight are also some nice attributes

Arrowhead, my compliments on such a great characterisation of the cars abilities, so, does that apply to a T bucket as well? Can you help me apprecaite the attributes of why people such as yourself pick a T bucket over say a Deuce? Both are visually pleasing but I'm of the opinion the T bucket is for sedate older folks whereas the deuce is for bad boys. INCOMING, LOOK OUT!

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

[QUOTE=tin-man;456576]

Originally Posted by Arrowhead

The slot car handling and 2100# curb weight are also some nice attributes

Arrowhead, my compliments on such an great characterisation of the cars abilities, so, does that apply to a T bucket as well? Can you help me apprecaite the attributes of why people such as yourself pick a T bucket over say a Deuce? Both are visually pleasing but I'm of the opinion the T bucket is for sedate older folks whereas the deuce is for bad boys. INCOMING, LOOK OUT!

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

Talk about incoming!! John, you seem to have missed the point of Arrowhead's post. He's a builder and supporter of the FF33 kits, and his statements relate to that specific vehicle. Now as for your statement about T-buckets being for the senior citizens in old folks homes?? I'll let you defend that one yourself - hope you packed the cast iron underware in your ExPat pack....

[QUOTE=rspears;456578]

Originally Posted by tin-man

Talk about incoming!! John, you seem to have missed the point of Arrowhead's post. He's a builder and supporter of the FF33 kits, and his statements relate to that specific vehicle. Now as for your statement about T-buckets being for the senior citizens in old folks homes?? I'll let you defend that one yourself - hope you packed the cast iron underware in your ExPat pack....

Roger, to the contrary, I totally got his post and complimented his description of his cars handling abilities, this was in addition to my earlier post #4 on this thread congratulating Arrowhead on his remarkable tenacity and endurance during his build. If you check that post, 34_40 sent me the link Arrowheads Hot Rod Site which was a fascinating read and was a well documented introduction for me being a newbie to the business of hot rods. Also, and if I am not mistaken, Arrowhead responded to one of my original questions as to height of the front of the car to the ground.

As to the T bucket remark, I like both the T bucket and the deuce, but to my novice eye when looking at the for sale sites they have been offered with what appeared to be smaller engines than say what is typical for the deuce. Now maybe I have not seen any T buckets with BBC or Fords and being the case mea culpa for making an observation that was not entirely correct. Regarding the older folks crack, yep, I expect that may stir the pot a bit, but then again it was all in good fun, right? I am of the opinion the distinction between the older folks and bad boys will be taken in the spirit it was pitched as being pure hyperbole. That said I am curious why somebody selects a T bucket over say a deuce, probably just personal preference, but I thought I would pose the question.

So there you have it, I don't generally explain my actions, but being new to this forum I thought it best to do so. Did I do right?

Now where did I put those cast iron pants?

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

John,
Speaking from one of those older folks perspectives "that of which I am", The pants might be a bit of an overkill. You probably only need the COD PIECE.

No,John,,you dont see too many T buckets with B/B's in them,,cos I think you will find,that the average bucket weighs considerably less than any deuce,,whether it be steel or glass,so the power to weight ratio,with a warmed over S/B,and a short wheelbase,is sure to be a trouser packer,,and an interesting handling package at that.. You need to try your hand in a blown B/BC powered streetlegal bucket,like hotrodtodd has,down here,in NZ..

Originally Posted by Bug

John,
Speaking from one of those older folks perspectives "that of which I am", The pants might be a bit of an overkill. You probably only need the COD PIECE.

Bug, since I don't have a cod piece, err, hmmm, maybe I start again, OK here we go...."speaking of those fine folks that drive T buckets" what was/is the compelling motivation for that choice of ride, just curious, can you share, are there stories here that would be of interest to the group??

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man .......................phew, hope that did it.

Originally Posted by lamin8r

No,John,,you dont see too many T buckets with B/B's in them,,cos I think you will find,that the average bucket weighs considerably less than any deuce,,whether it be steel or glass,so the power to weight ratio,with a warmed over S/B,and a short wheelbase,is sure to be a trouser packer,,and an interesting handling package at that.. You need to try your hand in a blown B/BC powered streetlegal bucket,like hotrodtodd has,down here,in NZ..

Robin, thank you for that explanation. John ,AKA, tin-man

John,
I apologize, I thought your were confused about the FF33 build, as I did not take (and have not taken) time to go to the other hot rod site linked. I was only going from what had been said here, and it seemed to be off. My mistake.

Regarding a deuce and "necessary" power, my '33 highboy coupe is pushing about 425Hp and 475ftlbs, and I can tell you it is a handful to drive at WOT. Fun?? Sure, I love every minute in it, but if I were doing it again I would likely go with a much more sedate crate engine in the 300HP range. For me the added power of a big block is going to be severe overkill in a light vehicle like a fiberglass coupe. The added weight up front is going to affect your handling, and unless you're going to have it built for hard core drags or nostalgia gasser wars you're never going to need that power. Now if you're wanting it purely for the "WOW" factor, more power to you (pun intended). As a cruiser I'd bet you'll be much happier with a nice small block without too many bells & whistles other than the desired bling for the open hood look. Just my $0.02 on the subject, and you can take it for what it's worth.

Roger,
I think I have John on the right track.
He started this out askin about a non trad 33 car with a BBF
After many emails back and forth, he's on to the "real deal" now
( I think)
Got him all hot and bothered about doin a "Old Crow"
type roadster in YELLER, with a (as he said 2 me) Bad ass 355 SBC !!!
We'll see, when he get's back to AZ and pulls the trigger

John - I don't think anyone has answered your question as to why someone would choose a 'bucket over a '30s car. My response to this would be several fold. First of all, complexity. A 'bucket is usually pretty simple to build. Next would be for those with limited space - a small shed will house a 'bucket and its pieces. Then there is the need for limited tools and lastly - cost. A very nice 'bucket can put together for less then 10,000USD - and in many case, much less.

And as far as age - IMO, you have it in reverse. Younger folks will go the 'bucket route for the above reasons while the older folks often have a financial 'nest egg' and can afford the costs for a '30s rod - and to build one of them, think $30,000 and (mostly) up. I built a 'bucket in the late '80s - the cost was less then the driveline of my '31. I'll let Arrowhead answer about his, but I can assure you that it was well done. Mine - as far as engine, it had a heated up Ford 351W, handled very well, accelerated like a scalded cat and stopped well. And it would attract more spectators at a show then most '32s But I do like my '31 lots better

Originally Posted by DA34GUY

Roger,
I think I have John on the right track.
He started this out askin about a non trad 33 car with a BBF
After many emails back and forth, he's on to the "real deal" now
( I think)
Got him all hot and bothered about doin a "Old Crow"
type roadster in YELLER, with a (as he said 2 me) Bad ass 355 SBC !!!
We'll see, when he get's back to AZ and pulls the trigger

That's good, Don. So all we have to do is work on that one, flawed letter, swapping the "C" for an "F" and maybe drop eight from that "355" number?? Should be good to go, then!

Originally Posted by rspears

That's good, Don. So all we have to do is work on that one, flawed letter, swapping the "C" for an "F" and maybe drop eight from that "355" number?? Should be good to go, then!

Roger - he can keep the 355 moniker as long as it starts with something like ..... 351W+.030



...

While all the good fun poking about "older, sedate...." folks is entertaining, it sounds like a preference is forming in John's mind. This goes back to where we started on this discussion, the newb needs to do a fair amount of "research" to refine and define past an initial stirring in the gut that one particular car might evoke.

While I generally agree with Dave W. on most of his comments, I have a slightly different experience with the young rodders of today. These are not to be confused with the rat rod guys, these are the ones who have embraced what we call the traditional style. Very few of them have much interest in T buckets, though those are indeed very economical builds/buys. They are really into the next cheapest old Ford.............the Model A. In the course of recycling parts through my garage I've met quite a few of these guys the past couple years. They're eager, some very well informed, and have a passion (some almost blindly so) for older style hot rods. I hope I live long enough to see if their tastes will evolve as their skill level and wallets grow much as ours did.

As for big block vs small block in a T bucket, you could always "split the difference" and do as this fellow in Henderson, NV did: Double Trouble Hot Rod

Every one should have a BLENDER like that

“......with a (as he said 2 me) Bad ass 355 SBC !!!.......”

Wouldn’t have been my first choice, but that’s not to say it’s a bad choice.

As the discussion of a few pages back pointed out there was/is a reason that the SBC finds its way into so many cars. Packaging a SBC into an engine compartment is a whole lot simpler.

All three of these engines started life around 350 CI (350, 352, and 354 respectively) and there is just a lot less you have to work around with the little orange one (let alone weight and sump locations).



Now that the engine selection is starting to be narrowed down, it might be a good time to start looking at what specifically you want the engine to do (how you’re going to drive it) and the rest of the drive train.

The general parameters John has laid out..... “Something I can drive hard and fast, make real nasty sounds with, can survive long runs in Arizona and in general will provide the right amount of passion that I am looking for in a ride......” Will call for some compromises, setting priorities as to what is more important with regards to power, reliability and economy.

I think Rogers comment is VERY insightful.

“......Regarding a deuce and "necessary" power, my '33 highboy coupe is pushing about 425Hp and 475ftlbs, and I can tell you it is a handful to drive at WOT. Fun?? Sure, I love every minute in it, but if I were doing it again I would likely go with a much more sedate crate engine in the 300HP range.....”

If I were to give one suggestion for the engine it would be to NOT overbuild it! Having the nastiest sounding, quickest car at the local cruise might be a lot of fun, but not so much when you’re sitting alongside the road overheated on a 100 degree afternoon, turn into a gas station when you’re on fumes and they have just run out of premium and you’re stuck with mid grade to get you to the next station, or only get 75 miles on a rather small tank of gas.

Just my own druthers I personally prefer something making a lot of bottom end torque at lower RPM on the street than a high winding horsepower motor. For me just as a starting point, I think I would be looking along the lines of a 383 stroker with a 9:1 static compression ratio (iron head) or 9:5 (aluminum head). I’d look for a combination with a nice broad torque curve and a maximum RPM of around 6500 RPM. As far as HP do what everybody else does, make it up or lie

Depending on the final specs the motor comes in at, look for a transmission, final gear ratio and tire size that complements the engine while giving a reasonable RPM at a cruise speed of 75-80 MPH. I would definitely be looking at overdrive transmissions to allow fun cruising with a relatively low gear around town.

Just my 2 cents.