Thread: tin-man has some questions, it begins.....

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

with something like 17x15 rear tires you would need a narrowed frame and a pro street type approach--not traditional and in my opinion not good looking--stay with something no more than 10 or 11 wide

Jerry, Now this is the exact type of feedback I am looking for, thank you. I guess you guys have to be real patient with us newbies in that we have our druthers and out of not having a full grasp of the do's and dont's of the craft put forth suggestions that are certainly doable, but are either not practical, none traditional or would entail major mods to portions of the build and thus add to the original build costs.

OK, I give up, I guess when I pull the trigger I'll just have to send Don tons of progressive payments, sit back, let him do what he does best and then drool and provide all the oohs and ahhs when I picks up the deuce.. err, well, something kinda like that.

I am beginning to understand now how some some people can wind up building DONKS, they don't have the expertise available to them that is right here on this forum, either that or they don't listen.. Cheers, John , AKA, tin-man

Originally Posted by tin-man

Jerry, Now this is the exact type of feedback I am looking for, thank you. I guess you guys have to be real patient with us newbies in that we have our druthers and out of not having a full grasp of the do's and dont's of the craft put forth suggestions that are certainly doable, but are either not practical, none traditional or would entail major mods to portions of the build and thus add to the original build costs.

OK, I give up, I guess when I pull the trigger I'll just have to send Don tons of progressive payments, sit back, let him do what he does best and then drool and provide all the oohs and ahhs when I picks up the deuce.. err, well, something kinda like that.

I am beginning to understand now how some some people can wind up building DONKS, they don't have the expertise available to them that is right here on this forum, either that or they don't listen.. Cheers, John , AKA, tin-man

Now ya finally figured out John.
Like I said in an email to you.
"Profesionalism" = I don't tell my dentist how to fix my teeth and he doesn't tell me how to build him a "Hot Rod"

Originally Posted by rspears

John,

Regarding a deuce and "necessary" power, my '33 highboy coupe is pushing about 425Hp and 475ftlbs, and I can tell you it is a handful to drive at WOT. Fun?? Sure, I love every minute in it, but if I were doing it again I would likely go with a much more sedate crate engine in the 300HP range. For me the added power of a big block is going to be severe overkill in a light vehicle like a fiberglass coupe. The added weight up front is going to affect your handling, and unless you're going to have it built for hard core drags or nostalgia gasser wars you're never going to need that power. Now if you're wanting it purely for the "WOW" factor, more power to you (pun intended). As a cruiser I'd bet you'll be much happier with a nice small block without too many bells & whistles other than the desired bling for the open hood look. Just my $0.02 on the subject, and you can take it for what it's worth.

Roger, thanks for this. As I go back and review the various posts and suggestions on this thread, plus one of Dons emails to me where he recommended a 355 SBC it seems if I read you correctly a 355 SBC motor could get me to the point of my original objectives: i.e. something that provides performance, visual appeal, reliability, ease of handling, something I can drive hard and fast, make real nasty sounds with, can survive long runs in Arizona and in general provide the right amount of passion that I am looking for in a ride.

Is this a correct assessment and would such a motor need to be tweaked, as in stroked up to attaining in the region of say 375-400 HP max with a corresponding torque?

I am OK with a generic 355 but would like some additional feedback on the level of tweaking such an engine would/could/ should get to attain an acceptable performance level AND deliver something close to what I have described above? Is there such an ideal equation, don't know? As I stated on Club Cobra, automotive sciences was not my major, I can build you a factory anywhere in this world and have it productive and profitable within three years, but building a car, sorry, I will leave that to the experts and perform my due diligence by asking for advice from members of this forum who have been there and done that and certainly know more about the craft than I do. Just makes good sense to me.

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

Originally Posted by tin-man

As I stated, automotive sciences was not my major, I can build you a factory anywhere in this world and have it productive and profitable within three years, but building a car, sorry, I will leave that to the experts and perform my due diligence by asking for advice from members of this forum who have been there and done that and certainly know more about the craft than I do. Just makes good sense to me.

What I take away from Rogers comments is that 425 HP is a bit overkill. Staying in the 300 : 350 HP range would be just as satisfactory.

I went the opposite route. A stock rebuilt 302 sbf fell into my lap from a local reputable machine shop so I jumped on it. While it's far from 300 HP, it's still fun right now and with gas approaching the 4 $/gal mark, (soon to be 5?) I don't mind the lower feed rate of a stocker. It's still more that the factory ever installed and the AOD trans helps with the 3.90 gearing.

I do plan on stepping up with heads / cam / intake, maybe EFI in the future because the first rule of roddin' is that they're never done, right?

John,

You can build a simple 355 or in my case, a 351W bored to a 358. 352 HP and 414 Torque and be more than happy.

It's all power to weight. When you consider that a high boy will weigh in the 2300-2800 pound range, add 250-350 horsepower to that, recalling the stock version of that engine propelled a 4-5000 pound lump very nicely down the road, you will be very satisfied with the performance. Now, if you add a 2.42 rear axle ratio to that equation - then that 2500 pound car then becomes .... another lump. There is a balance of parts required to obtain the performance you need/like for any particular car. Then there is curb appeal. Yes, a big supercharger looks great, and it has extended curb appeal - but that is at a cost - material and $$. Then there are some reliability and maintenance adders when you start getting into more exotic performance options. But - it IS your car and dream and your money and as Mike, above, said. they are seldom done (that is until they roll down the driveway with another owner)

It would seem to me you have a somewhat unique opportunity John. Before you get committed to a singular notion I would think you'd want to plan to go to the LARS on father's day weekend and hook up with Don and his gang. I'm sure you'd be able to wrangle a drive in one or more of their cars to get a feel for all or most of the things that will affect your enjoyment.............move to reality rather than speculation. We all make compromises to enjoy these toys, the question becomes which compromises are you as an individual most comfortable with. You may end up in the same place as you are today, or you may experience some factors that will motivate you to make some changes that enhance the experience. These are "customs" in the sense they can be tailored to suit, easier done in the initial build than in retrofit most often.

John,
Everything you need has been said here - power to weight, hp, torque, gearing. If you go with Don for a total build he's got an experienced (read old) engine guy who does them right, so all you need to do is define basic wants and not worry with the details. Matching up the drivetrain is important for having the car you want - while I've got more HP & torque than a sane man needs I hooked it up with a Tremec TKO600 5spd, Detroit TrueTrac 4.11's in the rear and 31" tires. Shuttle launch bottom end, but with the 0.64OD it cruises at 2000 rpm at 70mph, and yes I've got size 12 brogans and while tight it works (sorry Don, I love shifting the gears). I'm not one for tuning for sound, or even worse selecting a cam for the idle characteristics - Comp Cams is selling a lot of "Thumpers" to the kids who have nothing but a lopey idle. Posers, pure & simple. The hot rod idle takes care of itself when everything's matched up and tuned for performance/efficiency.

Bob's idea is a great one, by the way. LARS would give you opportunity to see a ton of right built hot rods, and probably some wrong built, too. Talking to guys face to face is a good thing.

Originally Posted by rspears

John,
Everything you need has been said here - power to weight, hp, torque, gearing. If you go with Don for a total build he's got an experienced (read old) engine guy who does them right, so all you need to do is define basic wants and not worry with the details. Matching up the drivetrain is important for having the car you want - while I've got more HP & torque than a sane man needs I hooked it up with a Tremec TKO600 5spd, Detroit TrueTrac 4.11's in the rear and 31" tires. Shuttle launch bottom end, but with the 0.64OD it cruises at 2000 rpm at 70mph, and yes I've got size 12 brogans and while tight it works (sorry Don, I love shifting the gears). I'm not one for tuning for sound, or even worse selecting a cam for the idle characteristics - Comp Cams is selling a lot of "Thumpers" to the kids who have nothing but a lopey idle. Posers, pure & simple. The hot rod idle takes care of itself when everything's matched up and tuned for performance/efficiency.

Bob's idea is a great one, by the way. LARS would give you opportunity to see a ton of right built hot rods, and probably some wrong built, too. Talking to guys face to face is a good thing.

Roger, I agree,, we're pretty much winding it down now, just as I am doing here in China and I just need to sort out a few more points for the engine drive train options and a few other things like seat belts and such. The fix however, is pretty much in and when I get ready to pull the trigger will be inclined to turn it over to Don since he has read what my expectations and colors options are, AND his Old Crow does it for me.

That said, what Bob recommends makes absolute sense in that I should link up with Don's group at LARS and do some more due diligence, talking, tire kicking and maybe drivin', heck, I never been in one of these machine yet, but I know what I like.

So can somebody tell me all about LARS?

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man,

LARS ?? = The best and biggest roadster show of em all.
Cars and spectators from all over the world attend.
I've only missed 1 of em.
Was in Nam in 1969 (Woulda been a long drive)
Held @ the L.A. County fair grounds in Pomona every year
on Father Day weekend
Google it John.
Drivin to it this year with a few friends (new and old)
The group will consist of cars from N.Carolina, Kentucky,Flordia,Texas, New Mexico,Kansas,Oklahoma, and Arizona.
"The 2nd annual Great Grebeard Adventure 2012"
12 cas runnin the interstates and secondary roads is what it's all about.

Originally Posted by DA34GUY

LARS ?? = The best and biggest roadster show of em all.
Cars and spectators from all over the world attend.
I've only missed 1 of em.
Was in Nam in 1969 (Woulda been a long drive)
Held @ the L.A. County fair grounds in Pomona every year
on Father Day weekend
Google it John.
Drivin to it this year with a few friends (new and old)
The group will consist of cars from N.Carolina, Kentucky,Flordia,Texas, New Mexico,Kansas,Oklahoma, and Arizona.
"The 2nd annual Great Grebeard Adventure 2012"
12 cas runnin the interstates and secondary roads is what it's all about.

Don, thanks for the clarification, I joined Deuces Limited and saw several discussions on the subject. Hopefully I will be able to make it now I know where it is. Cheers, John AKA, tin-man

[QUOTE=DA34GUY;457003]LARS ?? = The best and biggest roadster show of em all.
Cars and spectators from all over the world attend.
I've only missed 1 of em.
Was in Nam in 1969 (Woulda been a long drive)
Thank You and all who served past,present,future!! Pete (tin-man you will be like a kid in a candy store at that show)

[QUOTE=DA34GUY;457003]LARS ?? = The best and biggest roadster show of em all.
Cars and spectators from all over the world attend.
I've only missed 1 of em.
Was in Nam in 1969 (Woulda been a long drive)
Thank You and all who served past,present,future!! Pete (tin-man you will be like a kid in a candy store at that show)

[QUOTE=prpmmp;457015]

Originally Posted by DA34GUY

LARS ?? = The best and biggest roadster show of em all.
Cars and spectators from all over the world attend.
I've only missed 1 of em.
Was in Nam in 1969 (Woulda been a long drive)

Thank You and all who served past,present,future!! Pete

(tin-man you will be like a kid in a candy store at that show)

Should I leave my wallet at home or just give it to Don to hold?....oops, I guess Jerry Clayton was partially right after all......
Cheers, tin-man

I want to thank all the folks who provided advice and counseling during my introduction to this forum and in my search for that perfect hot rod. As these threads will attest to, my leanings were mixed in the beginning but were aligned somewhere around the 32-33 era hot rod offerings and went from discussing the Factory Five 33 Hot Rod to a 32 3 Window Coupe and eventually wound up with the Deuce Roadster that was shown by Don.

His Old Crow was what finalized my thought process since it had all attributes I was looking for but perhaps did not quite know it at the beginning as evidenced by the BBF vs BBC vs SBC discussions and the related HP considerations.

So that said, I am in touch with Don on a build project and I am now sorting out what it is that I want in my build. We'll meet up at the LARS show after I have returned to the USA in April and we'll take it from there. Certainly the LARS event will enlighten me some more and who knows perhaps there will be one there with my name on it, don't know, I'll certainly keep an open disposition but dang that car of Don's keeps burning a hole in my mind. I think its got something to do with how Don presented his offerings, Dave W's awesome “Valencia Orange" '31 Model A DeLuxe Roadster plus the recommendations everyone gave Dons workmanship.

Its very hard to beat word of mouth advertising.

Don, yer got some real fine supporters on this forum and that's mighty fine by me.

So there you have it ....... to be continued.

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man.
Zhuhai, P.R.C.