Thread: Buy American Our government at work

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Heck, who do you believe on that deal??? The CalTran rep or the reporter???

It’s a deep hole we have and are digging ourselves into. The mention of not having the pool of qualified welders to do that job echoes what I was reading about a Florida (?) company last week that could not find qualified machinists.

In the opinion of this grumpy old man I feel that a large part of the blame lies with us and the previous generation. In our efforts for our kids to have a better life than we had we somehow instilled in them that there was something wrong with being a blue collar worker.....that somehow being in those jobs was not living up to ones full potential and were paying the price now.

We are hitting the time now that we don’t have the jobs because we don’t the skilled workers, but there is no incentive to gain the skills with no jobs available (and a master welder or machinist is not grown overnight) .

Mike, I share your viewpoint. I worked for many years in the electric power industry, and on several EPC (engineer, procure, construct) projects in different parts of the country. One of the biggest problems facing us is the "graying of the construction industry" - the experienced skilled workers in all of the trades are nearing retirement, and there's no influx of young blood following them, learning the tricks of the trade. Part of it is the blue collar/white collar bias, but even more is the "I want it now" attitude of a lot of the younger generation. They are not willing to work for a few years as a helper or apprentice to the master craftsman - they want the master craftsman pay starting out. Qualified welders is a particular shortage. We had more than one job where we advertised for, and brought in ASME welders from the Phillipines for six months to a year because we could not hire them locally, even paying travel - they simply were not there, or were already tied up on other jobs. We even set up a "welding school" on site to get guys/gals qualified in a fast track training program, and could not get enough interest to fill the needs. And before someone jumps me about it, those Phillipine welders were getting the same pay as everyone else, plus their per diem and travel - not a case of shifting jobs OUS for savings. We spent many, many dollars extra simply to stay on schedule. Somehow we need to re-educate our kids on the value of an honest days work for honest days wage, and that it's OK (or more than OK) to get your hands dirty.

I agree with you gents. When I retired fifteen years ago, things were already looking pretty dismal in the trades; 'most' of the applicants to the apprentice programs were people who couldn't make the grade to get into college, or had a criminal background and couldn't get into a job any other way. Some proved out and were excellent workers, but they were the exceptions rather than the rules. I can't imagine that anything has gotten better over the years, I'm sorry to say.

Just to expand on what you guys have identified, there is no single idea, scheme, cause, whatever...........it's the accumulation of decades of silly think. Young people today have been indoctrinated with the idea that those who are successful (whatever level.........it all becomes relative to a viewpoint) got there because of "luck" or some other silly notion. If they go into college they come out believing they've done all they need to do to get the "big check"..............they're fed that line from a very young age. No idea that whatever they were taught in school, primary or secondary, is just foundational to figuring out how to produce value for their fellow man to be compensated for. I read a report from the national manufacturing association yesterday that there are 600k jobs across this country right now that can't find qualified workers. These are skill jobs, some more complex than others, but not rocket science.

In line with Roger's commentary, I found that when it came time to groom a new body or paint guy for the team we had better odds with immigrants who came here wanting to earn opportunity, not have it given them as an entitlement. They were less likely to have the "know it all" attitude, and recognized they needed to learn to earn. Some young folks born to this country were taught that too, just not enough of them. It's like that phrase often attached in the illegal alien discussions; "They're doing the jobs Americans won't do!". That's dead wrong though my expression of it doesn't sound very diffeent, it is vastly different from a motivational point of view. I say, "They're doing jobs that Americans DON"T HAVE to do."...........mainly because it's to easy to get by day to day for all the handout programs that don't require any more effort than filling out a form, or maybe standing in line for a short while. Little things, well intentioned things, but a cascade of dumb ideas for 4 or 5 decades and we end up with what we've got....................a team that doesn't have enough people who know how, much less are willing, to compete. Sigh....................

Same thing here, Bob... When I had my shop, once every few months some kid would hang around for awhile telling me how he wanted to learn to do all the fabrication, welding, body work, etc. and if I paid him $20.00 an hour like the other guys he could start tomorrow! The classic was a kid 4 days out of vocational school who wanted a job, but seeing as how he'd been to school he thought he should just be the painter and not have to do all that metal banging, body work, or prep work!!!!

If rebuilding our economic system requires blue collar workers, not sure there's going to be enough of them around!! Heck, our local High School doesn't hardly have a shop program anymore, but you should see their computer labs!!! Sports programs draw a lot of $$$$ and support, too so I'm sure at least half the kids involved will go on to be professional athletes, right????

feed a young kid today and he'll go to bed happy , cut his ass off and he'll go to work when he's hungry. one of the biggest faults i see today is mom and dad bailing them out of every mess they get into. loaning money, paying for the car, paying for the insurance etc . go to a middle school and count the cell phones .

Apple has an $100 billion pile of cash they don't know what to do with

Originally Posted by shine

feed a young kid today and he'll go to bed happy , cut his ass off and he'll go to work when he's hungry. one of the biggest faults i see today is mom and dad bailing them out of every mess they get into. loaning money, paying for the car, paying for the insurance etc . go to a middle school and count the cell phones .

Heck Shine,
Around here the student parking lot at the high school has newer and higher dollar cars than anything in the teacher's lot. We've got little girls getting a new Beemer or Mercedes for their 16th birthday!! At the university they have a new position to deal with the parents trying to interface with the kid's teachers when little Johnny gets a below average grade... Yep, you've hit upon a big part of the problem..... How about a two year mandatory military service stint for everyone??? Sure, it costs some money, but it might straighten some kids out when they learn that they have to be responsible for their actions.

OK, (not quoting word for word but generally) Tony Anziano says they've done everything they could to keep the money in "our" economy BUT Sossel says that the American Companies say they could have done the job as cheap as the Chinese Company - - - - Gents, SOMEONE IS LYING !

I'll chime in have been out of pocket for a while,lot's happening around here.

I visited the Tool and Die business I sold in 97 last week. It was the first time I had visited since selling. The shop foreman and one machinist were all that was still with the company. The machinist was an apprentice when I was still owner.I left with an apprentice program that I had set up in the area with local companies and ACC our local community College.

To my surprise the program had been withdrawn. I set this program up because we were having a problem finding good machinist. The forman said the program died because of lack of interest from the potential local labor pool.

A lot has changed in the last 15 years,most want to start at the top and the old school of starting out at the bottom and working up is history. As stated , trades are going,going, and gone. Sad but true.

I honestly think we have beat ourselves up. Companies (small ones ) can't afford the trades people. I was a supervisor in a factory for 20 years. It was hell tryig to get a simpel job done with all the unions. To make a steel table (angel iron and a top 2'x3') and install it. First you need an engineer to draw it up, Then get a layout man He got the drawing and couldn't understand it,So he went out to the site to see what is going on. MORE TIME.The layout man goes to the steel yard to have the crane operator get him the Liron. The layout man then marks up all the parts He then get a welder to cut the steel at his marks.. Between the two they will tack the table together. THEN they take it out to the jobsite to make sure it fits. Then back to the weld shop to finish welding it. You do eventualy get the table. It is suposed to get a hyd. pump mounted on it. You get a pipe fitter to come look at the table. He has to go get a millright to drill him 4 holes. and tighten the bolts The pipe fitter then gets 2 hoses to hook up the pump... Now you get an electrican to power the motor the run the pump. He looks at it says Why do I get all the Construction job I'm busy working on breakdowns.. You call another electrican, he looks at it says I got to get materials I'll be back. He goes to lunch or home . Actualy there is more to it than I put down here. I figure by now no body believes me anyway, BUT if you ever worked as a supervisor in a big factory you know what I'm talking about. GOD forbid you pick up a tool to do anything and your paying someone for 4hr because of it. The factory jobs are there, but I can't believe the small or big shops can afford this type of goings on when one man out of work could do all that, be happy and have it done in less time. Before my 20 yrs as a supervisor I was a millwright/ electrician/ pipfitter/ welder/layoutman. You used to do whatever it takes. Today why bother hell Uncle Sam will give me a check every month to watch TV. Everytime they get a raise the price of the product goes up to compinsate ...So you got a raise ,and now your paying more for the product. How dose that work

Originally Posted by MelloYello

OK, (not quoting word for word but generally) Tony Anziano says they've done everything they could to keep the money in "our" economy BUT Sossel says that the American Companies say they could have done the job as cheap as the Chinese Company - - - - Gents, SOMEONE IS LYING !

Yeah, getting back on topic I agree with Meller - something stinks here and I suspect the statement of Tony Anziano is not entirely true. I believe what he was answering is that he selected the low, OUS bid, therefore spending less and thus keeping "...more money in our economy." Kind of like the guy my wife buying a new dress on sale, and focusing on "...look at how much I saved today!!"

they dont know where the money is , came from or going. no way in hell can they keep up with anything that large. some of you guys run your own business. i have a hard enough time dealing my little chunk of it. our government is just too figgin big to be effective.