Thread: For Don Shilady

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Originally Posted by rspears

Thanks for the clarification, Don. As has been stated before, I cannot imagine any reputable shop installing a 3.5" crank pulley! It simply does not make sense.

Based on the other mods they did on Don's engine, I can totally imagine THIS shop doing it. What a clusterbleep.

Don,

Again not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but is it possible the first shop misunderstood and thought you wanted to race your car?

I mention this only because it seems you have a fixation for race type equipment, perhaps thinking it may be better suited for your car, ie., the Jones Racing pulley instead of standard pulley? Is it possible, that in your zeal to get higher gas milage, the shop thought you wanted more horse power for racing and thus the electric water pump and low rpm alternator set up?

While racing equipment may be higher quality, it is not always well suited for street use. Sometimes in our quest for high performance we mistake racing equipment as the solution, when in fact not all race equipment performs well in daily driven type vehicles.

Again not trying to be disrespectful or offend. But if it were my car, I would remove the electric water pump setup along with all the related paraphernalia and put back on the stock water pump, alternator and pulley system. Even though this may be costly, I think you’d find the car much more reliable and enjoyable to drive, maybe even less costly in the long run.

JMHO

Here, here! I couldn't agree more, 36sedan. The auto "box stores" sell a lot of under-drive pulleys to the kids for their hot Mustangs and Camaro's, chasing the pittance of HP gain, and then sell them batteries, alternators and cables chasing why their always getting stranded with a low battery and why their lights flicker.... As I recall, you told us earlier that these changes were made in order for him to warrant his work. At this point I don't think I'd let that shop check the pressure in my tires, much less take the car back for tranny work. Consider that "warranty" a loss leader and move on.

36Sedan and Roger,
You can be certain I will not visit that shop again unless absolutely necessary, although I would like to have a circuit diagram for the cooling fans. For the near future I cannot afford to rebuild the cooling system so I am trying to make what is there work somehow. Overall my take on what happened is that the shop wanted to build my car their way while I paid the bill. The owner's wife revealed the shop was on the ragged edge of mortgage default and needed to keep customers rolling through the five lift shop and her model was based on a tire shop where you sit in a waiting room and pay the bill when the job is done in an hour or so. Overall, my intention was to just chrome a 350SBC rebuild with an Edelbrock intake and shorty headers. The "race emphasis" came from the shop more than me and I strenuously objected to the electric water pump. Then there is the problem of cooling a 355 cu. in. engine with a (new) Model A radiator! Well I have revealed my frustration too much here but have not specifically revealed the shop. However I have found a few other unsatisfied customers of that shop locally. Overall I would have to say the shop owner is a pretty good mechanic but I think the economic pressure of keeping the large shop going and a worrying wife-manager led him to think I could afford more race equipment than just a streetable fun car.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don Shillady

Totally understand now. I think at one time or another we have all been taken by someone.
The good news, there is a wealth of information and knowledge on this site by a group that loves to share. I'm sure if you bring your ideas to them they will help you sort it all out before you get taken again.

GM BALLAST RESISTOR?
I am going through a new frustration with a wobbling plastic magnet disk in a Pertronix setup using a converted 1974 Chevy distributor due to a lack of firewall clearance for a HEI distributor. The Pertronix Tech says the wobble in the plastic disk is caused by tightening the mounting screw on the top and my dizzy shaft rotates freely so I believe it to be straight. I am about to convert to a Crane XR1 kit but the Crane Tech says I need a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor which I have not used up till now. The Pertronix instructions are ambiguous regarding the ballast resistor as documented by many other Internet sites. My question here is that the pink wire in my "It's-A-Snap" wiring harness may/may not be a resistor wire? I chose the It's-A-Snap harness for two reasons: the labeled wires AND a phone number to an technical advisor but now the company is out of business. I called the Speedway tech and he says their harness has a pink coil (+) wire that is just a copper wire NOT a resistor wire. Does anyone on this Forum know whether the "It's-A-Snap" pink coil (+) wire is a resistance wire? How has my Pertronix kit worked without it using only a 1.5 ohm coil? The coil is presently erratic and probably close to failing due to the lack of a ballast resistor? I bought a ceramic 1.6 ohm ballast resistor but wonder where to mount it since it may get really hot and even smoke at first. I am just pondering/planning to mount it to the frame of the car for a heat sink. The Crane instructions are clear and I wonder how my 1.5 ohm coil lasted till now. The Crane tech insists there needs to be a ballast resistor anywhere from 1.2 to 1.9 ohms in the "run" circuit with the full 12 volts only in the "start" branch to the coil (+). I have been reading many, many other tech articles on this topic of the ballast resistor and I am now about ready for the Crane XR1 installation after finalizing the site of the resistor. Comparison to Ford Bronco and many other Ford models shows that Ford has used an insulated resistor wire for many years. How did GM handle the need for a ballast resistor before the HEI distributor came out? I need to study the connections to my spring-loaded key start from Speedway. Maybe there is an internal resistor in there but if so it would get hot, right? Comments?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientit/teen rodder

Don, I've run a Petronix unit in a Mallory dual point with their coil in my 66 Mustang for a number of years and it does not need a ballast resistor, but it won't make a difference if there is one in the circuit.

I have a Pertronix conversion in mine with their coil, their coil does not require a ballast resistor. However, they are clear in their instructions that if your coil needs a ballast resistor, to use it.

As for wether or not you have a resistor wire, you can test it either by reading the resistance of the wire or the voltage at the coil. To test the resistance, you'll need to get to both ends of the wire (where it hooks to the coil and ignition switch), disconnect the wire at one end and hook a OHM meter to both ends of the wire, read the resistance anything greater than 0 ohm's on the meter would indicate a resistance wire (usually read 1-2 ohms). To test voltage at the coil, first test across your battery using a 12VDC test meter to determine the battery's voltage on the meter, now hook the meter's red (+) lead to the + side of the coil (coil must be hooked up) and ground the meter's other lead, turn the ignition to on (not start) while watching the meter. If the voltage is less than what the meter read across the battery (usually 1-3 volts less), you have a resistance wire to the coil, if the voltage is the same you do not have a resistance wire.

If you use a ballast resistor, be sure it is rated to the correct wattage for the coil (resistors are rated by wattage and resistance), too low on the wattage and resistor will burn out prematurely. The resistor can be mounted on the firewall or any place it can cool as it will dissipate heat.

Some of the General Motor coils have a built in resistor. I do not believe the pink wire in your car is a resistance wire. I have a pic somewhere of the readings that you'll get with a good GM resistance coil.

This should help.. "IF" you have a GM internal resistance coil your reading should be close to these.

I'm presently removing my Mallory Distributor with a Pertronix kit installed and going back to an MSD, the MSD doesn't require the resistor - which I have mounted behind the dash on a screw with a spacer ( 2, #10 or 12 washers) and it doesn't get terribly hot. Since I've changed my direction so many times, I leave the resistor there and just use a jumper wire to bypass it when not needed.

I think the other guys are right, the Pertronix unit really doesn't care if you feed it 12 volts. It'll run the same on 6 as it does on 12.

Thanks all, there are several good suggestions there. In particular 36Sedan shows that a static reading at the (+) coil terminal need not have the engine running. During the week I hope to learn from speedway how their ignition switch can have different amp readings for the "start" and "run" positions.

See Universal Ignition Switch - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop

That is the ignition key-start I have. There must be a resistor in there somewhere to change the limiting amperage. I will call Speedway next week to get an explanation how the two positions differ internally.

The diagram from 34_40 shows the resistance inside the coil which is know to be 1.5 ohms. Thanks also for the suggestion on mounting a ballast resistor if needed. "IF" my key-start has some sort of internal resistor that would explain why I have not needed one till now and may not need one for the XR1. All considered, I want to change over to the XR1 since the magnetic signal from the metal octagon on the shaft looks sturdier than the floppy plastic disk in the Pertronix kit.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

During the week I hope to learn from speedway how their ignition switch can have different amp readings for the "start" and "run" positions.

Don, I believe you are a little confused. The amp ratings for the switch are referring to contact point current capacities, not resistance. There is no resistor in the switch, rather the switches contacts have different current handling capacities for each given circuit. The starter contact is lower current capacity because normally no accessories are used in this position (only the starter and ignition are used), the on and accessory positions require higher current rating to run all the extras such as A/C, heater, exc..

Hope this clears it up for you.

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

"IF" my key-start has some sort of internal resistor that would explain why I have not needed one till now and may not need one for the XR1. All considered, I want to change over to the XR1 since the magnetic signal from the metal octagon on the shaft looks sturdier than the floppy plastic disk in the Pertronix kit.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Your coil was probably matched to your "74 distributor, which would most likely have an internal resistor. A coil that is designed to have external ballast will not last long without ballast (hours to days), as without the ballast the coils current escalates out of control burning the coil up quickly.

If your Petronix is working, why change it? While the frame that attaches under the rotor can deform by over tightening it, usually loosening a bit corrects it, worst case order a new part for a fraction of the cost of a new system. Just my humble opinion.

36 sedan/34-40/NTFDAY

Yes, a little confused here but a call to Speedway this morning hopefully cleared it up and I want to document it here while I understand it. I do know that V=iR so I was wondering where there was some resistance for the given amp limits to provide a lower coil (+) voltage when running. The Tech from Speedway tells me that the "run" and "starter" positions on the ignition switch are completely independent. Thus my Pertronix Flamethrower coil (1.5 amps) (correction 1.5 OHMS) which was matched to the Pertronix kit has been getting the straight 14-11 volts while running with the rejuvenated higher voltage from the alternator. Perhaps my new found voltage with the Jones 5" pulley for the alternator drive is now producing a higher voltage to the coil resulting in near failure at first and now total engine stall. In particular there are indeed TWO (+) wires to the (+) terminal with the second (red) wire coming over the engine from a starter connection and the other (pink) wire coming directly from the ignition switch. I think I get it now, the pink wire should have the ballast resistor inserted in it since the Pertronix coil is rated at the same 1.5 amp resistance as the recommended Crane coil for the XR1 kit. Part of the problem has been that it was almost three years ago that I finally finished the wiring AND NOW I can't find the circuit diagram so I have to follow each wire the hard way. Sooooo, my conclusion is with that switch and a plain copper "pink" coil wire you DO have to use a ballast resistor (I have at present a 1.6 ohm ceramic resistor) and that using the above mentioned universal key ignition starter from Speedway the wire to the starter solenoid gives the full 12 v for hotter spark during brief starting. Looking back, the reason I did not need a ballast resistor with the Pertronix kit was because my alternator was putting out a low voltage but when I improved the alternator rpm the higher voltage ruined the un-ballested coil. Perhaps I could just replace the coil and insert the ballast resistor to keep the Pertronix kit but the XRi kit looks sturdier to me. Thanks for several suggestions. I am comforted to hear from 34-40 that he has changed his ignition system several times and other suggestions have been helpful to solve this problem "by committee" and that is the good thing about this Forum. I now think I understand the circuits better and note that I bought the "It's-A-Snap" wiring harness because of the hand-holding advice phone number. It now seems that the same wiring harness is available from Speedway with the same "pink" wire and Speedway is still in business capable of answering questions. Probably there is some main manufacturer of the 20-harness and it is marketed by various aftermarket vendors. So Speedway has a reliable ignition switch which is truly "universal" and it will work with the harness from several vendors since the same pink wire code has come up with all of the vendors I have chatted with.

P.S. I note that the (+) terminal on the coil is a source of electrons which are negative as noted on another Internet chat room. Having spent some 30 years studying electrons as negative particles makes me pause when electricians refer to a source of "juice" as positive but now I think I have sorted this out!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientst/teen rodder

The Petronix module works on the "Hall Effect" which is explained here Hall effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The resistance wire/ballast resistor is found in points type systems to drop the voltage to the points to keep from burning them up. Early GM solenoids had two small attaching lugs on the solenoid labeled "S" and "R". A ballast resistor/resistance wire was attached to the "R" lug and a non resistance wire was attached to the "S" lug providing 12 volts to the coil while starting the engine. The Petronix module will work with either configuration.