Thread: For Don Shilady

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Attachment 57339Attachment 5734034-40,

Yes, the Bebops body is a fiberglass shell over a skeleton made of 1" square tubing so any panels I add require drilling holes for screws. There is an inset along the top edge of the doors and maybe that is for a Velcro panel? Here is a picture of the seam tape along the front bow which hides the fasteners in an expandable middle seam. I would like to have such a tape 1 1/2" wide but probably that does not exist? A second picture shows my front kick panels. The color match and general result is probably the worst thing on the car and will probably make me get a professional job as soon as I can afford it. For now it still looks better than bare wood. I would put vinyl over it but I can't figure out how to cover the wooden "donuts" I used to offset the speakers from the inside of the body.

Postscrip: I just got my April 2013 (April??) copy of Street Rodder which has some of the usual nearly unnattainable skill and equipment that is beyond me but also includes a section on interiors which makes me realize these kick panels are unnacceptable. I will try to cover the kick panels with the brown vinyl I have by just cutting out a hole around the speaker donuts. I can do OK with a rat tail file and bolt in angle iron brackets but this pretty stuff requires a pro.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/Teen Rodder

34-40,

In the Rumble/Trunk area there is a double brace with a mid-point vertical bar behind the seat for lateral strength and it took a lot of messing around to get six screws through the back panel. At first I tried to tap the holes but later I learned to just use a drill size slightly smaller than the screws and they would self-tap.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/Teen RodderAttachment 57341

So Don, in that last picture can you explain the use of what appears to be a seat belt?

Don, there are more than a few books on doing auto interior. My wife got me one by Don Taylor and published by California Bill's Automotive handbooks. It says 19.95 on the back cover. While I never be as good as the pics in the book show, it did provide me with a lot of good ideas and gave me the courage to attempt it on my own. So I did create and fit all the panels by myself and did have a knowledgable friend purchase the material and guide me in the material application.

The headliner was over my head so my buddy did that for me. I don't have pics on this computer But I shared some in Randys thread.

Doing the interior isn't that bad, (in 20/20 hindsight) 8-) , it takes planning and a direction, but you can do it!

On that top edge in back of the door, I would use some adhesive and secure a cleat, so that the top edge on your panel can be fastened. I would do this anywhere the panel needs support. Then you can use upholstery tacks into the wood.

Originally Posted by rspears

So Don, in that last picture can you explain the use of what appears to be a seat belt?

To ensure that we don't lose this question by only looking at the last post....can you explain the use of what appears to be a seat belt in that last photo?

He referred to it as a rumble / trunk, so I expect it's exactly as it appears.. a seatbelt

Don, here's a photo of Polyform's 1919 Speedster body. I have been lusting after building one of these for years....
Poli-Form: '19 Ford Speedster

After searching through the site, it looks like it has been discontinued...

The "Rumble/Trunk" started out to be a rumble seat. I measured an authentic Model A rumble seat and made a full size cardboard copy. Then I folded up the carboard model and sent it to Rock Valley to make a fuel tank. The Rock Valley tanks are usually 16 gauge stainless steel but folks kept telling me I was making a Pinto-bomb if I ever got rear-ended so I added a 1/4" thick x 4" wide steel plate across the quarter panel body skeleton to protect the tank from the rear and had Rock Valley use thicker 14 gauge stainless for the tank. The plan was then to just pad the tank and make a rumble seat. The volume of the tank came out to be 13.5 gallons so I may have to carry a spare gas container; I am hoping to get about 19-20 mpg with the 3.55 rear and the 700R4 OD but 13 gallons is a bit low. Then I noted how purty the inside paint on the deck lid is and in testing my adult daughter was able to sit on the tank OK so I just added a plywood board on top of the tank for future upholstery. At present I just covered the board with brown vinyl that has a felt backing for slight padding. Since someday I may want to take the three grandkids in a local parade (Ashland has a July 4th AND a Christmas parade) I need a seat belt under Virgina law and the only way I can figure to secure the two little ones together is to have one long seatbelt. Fortunately the mounting bolts of the tank to the rumble hinge is a perfect place to attach the seat belt so there you have it, a small (hard) rumble seat with no back except the bare deck lid but it does have a seat belt. All of that can change (or not) if I ever scrounge up the funds for a full upholstered interior, one preliminary estimate was $3000 so that is on hold for now.

Glad to hear from the Techinspector. Yes the speedster body is close to my subliminal favorite of a 1927 roadster body without fenders but the wife said my car had to have fenders and "look like a cute Model A" so the fenderless roadster project is like some of my National Science Foundation proposals "Approved but not funded"! Even so, look back at the picture of the 1910 speedster with the Weaver Sisters on a hot summer day and all of this cold stuff fades away at least in your mind! By the way you can still get a METAL speedster kit body for a Model A frame from Bratton's Antique Auto Parts in Maryland and I understand there is some sort of organization in the Penna-Maryland-WestVa region that races them but you would have to chat with the folks at Bratton's for details at 301-829-9880 or 800-255-1929. An interesting note is that the Bratton's folks quote some high number of Model A titles still registered as their market base but I bet at least half of those titles are for hot rods of some type. Still I was amazed that all the parts I bought from Bratton's fit the Bebops 'glass body for outside dimensions. Inside the shell is another matter where you need to make your own brackets.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/Teen Rodder

Well, I'm relieved that the seat belt is not part of the gas tank restraint as it appears to be in the photo, but I'm concerned that you're considering putting kids atop a gas tank whether it's upholstered or not, even if it's "just for a parade", and regardless how thick the metal is. As for the seat belt, putting two people in one belt is a big no-no, as in the event of any significant force they are going to be crushed together in the belt. I'd be surprised if you can get the vehicle registered if the state considers that "rumble seat area" to be for passengers, especially with what I've heard about Virginia's process. In fact, they may force you to hinge it on top, as a trunk, for gas tank access but to prevent it being used for people. Just my $0.02, and you didn't ask for comments.

Well, the seat is narrow so really only suitable for one adult. We will find out when the VIN inspector gets here. At this point I will do whetever is required. The seatbelt is easily removed and the tank is secured by five bolts, on each end and three on a 4" wide tab welded to the front of the tank bolted to the floor. It would not be easy to reverse the deck hinges at this point. For me the whole mystique of the Model A roadster has to do with the rumble seat so if necessary I could install saddle tanks, disconnect the present tank, flush it with with water and detergent to get rid of vapors and keep it as the rumble seat. So far I have complied with the catalytic convertor requirement even though it is only necessary in Northern Virginia and not south of Fredericksburg (but it might be extended in the future?). Further, I fixed what I consider a mistake in installing a 5" dropped front axel by installing two 1/4" plates above the front spring to meet the minimum bumper height so in effect I have a 4 1/2" drop. A 4" dropped axel would have been better. A switch to saddle tanks would require warmer weather so I will let the VIN inspector tell me how to pass so the final form of my car may evolve further but take more time over the Summer.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/Teen Rodder

Just my opinion Don, But, I would remove the lapbelts and tank padding BEFORE any inspection!
It'll be far more headache(s) than it's worth!

Later, after you're registered and titled, then you can create a reasonable seat arrangement for the kids or a passenger.

I don't want to discourage you, I just see that as an added hurdle / hassle for an inspector to give an approval on and would only hinder your effort(s).

Apholstery isn't as difficult as you may think.

When I got a thousand dollar estimate for my Vega, I bought an old heavy duty singer sewing machine. Got it all done for about $500 total investment, and still have the machine.

I wasn't going to say anything else, but this continues to bother me because of the safety issue, especially for kids. I agree 100% with Mike that you should remove that rear lap belt and padded "seat" from the fuel tank, but I firmly believe that when you decided to use the rumble seat/trunk space for your gas tank you eliminated that area as a passenger compartment and made your roadster a two passenger vehicle. You can rationalize all you want, saying it's only for a parade, or I made the tank from thicker material, or I braced the surrounding area, but putting a gas tank in an occupied space is just not right. After you get your registration process behind you (sans the rear belt & padded "seat") then you can decide how badly you want to have a rumble seat. If you want one, then the first order of business should be to relocate the gas tank, and then install a "real" seat and "real" lap belts for the kids. You might consider the Tanks, Inc saddle tanks, which have been used on a bunch of full fendered A's - 1928-29 Ford Apron Fill Saddle Fuel Tanks

Best of luck with your registration process. I recall Jack's (Henry Rifle) stories of his frustrations with the VA process, and I hope yours goes smoother than his.

No more dangerous than a pinto with tank in stock position.

You figure out whose argument that bolsters!

I know about the saddle tanks but I am not keen on using polyethylene tanks hanging low over a rocky driveway or messing with a transfer valve. The alternative is the Dagle kit IC2 has which exposes the tank quite a bit and requires welding frame extensions. This may be a problem that takes time to repair but I think I will see what the inspector says and just present the seat as a one adult passenger case. If I take the seat board off, the connections to the gas gauge are exposed so I need to cover those wires. It cost me $2000 to get all the details tweaked on brakes, ignition, radiator and other small details to get an Inspection sticker so I will just have to work it out whatever is required because I am past the point of no return and I want to avoid the $70/hr. commercial rate so I will just have to work on it over the summer if need be.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/Teen Rodder