Thread: Hidden Costs

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We all talk about shop equipment.It's almost like I do too assume we already own it all.If you think about it just good 220 gas mig and a Tig would run you upwards to $2500 to $3000 grand.If I was to buy a Imperial English Wheel no problem to cost $3500.Then a decent shear about $1500 to a easy $2000.A decent planishing air hammer about $350 to $500.A brake about $375 to a rolling type to $1,000.

Now I read the whole thread about Tig's and the advise given by Jerry and Pat is rock solid on how to make them better.Thing is the consumables in gas,rods,etc is all covered by income from jobs they might be doing.For the home user it is hard to come up with the money for that in a personal project.Heck it is hard to come up with what would rival the cost of the project itself for the shop supplies and equipment.

All the above pricing is for a general feel about what I am saying here.Kind of depressing when you think about say a easy $20,000 grand in that stuff.And that is just the equipment and not anything about a shop to work in and heat for the same.Just some random thoughts I have been thinking about.Starting to think the only way is to take on side jobs........

Laying out 20k just to start is hard to think of. However if you buy things as needed it ain't so bad. Got to pay to play and as in racing it cost to be fast, well it cost to build. There is a load of satisfaction in building, not only building but a huge advantage in repairing. Many times the repair will correct a manufacturer's poor engineering, custom a product for you own needs and uses.

Consumables usually that is a item bought in bulk and how good the user is will determinein the amount spent to replenish. Two people drive the exact same car one will always go further cause of his driving habits. There are ways to get many jobs out of a bottle of argon. When I get my feet wet with the Tig I am sure the filler and tungsten electrode cost will come down, again back to the user in this case me.


Lots of things to be thought about and get depressed, I just do not have the time to waste on that myself. Get a plan and work on making it a reality, it will turn that frown upside down.

The race shop is 60 miles away from me.It is exclusively for the race cars and parts business.Heck we don't even do maintenance on the tow vehicles there.We farm that out.It has all those things in equipment I spoke about and more.But it also has over thirty yrs of build up in that equipment.

My private shop here in Roch is mine and I need all that stuff and more to do the projects aside from the van I have to do.And I need it all now.That is the part that is kicking my butt.I'm 65 yrs old and I need it now.I guess I'm just saying................

65 and you sound like todays generation "Got to have it now" What the hell happened to working for it saving for it. Just sounds like your throwing a tantrum I expect well be seeing tears soon. GROW UP

Originally Posted by cffisher

65 and you sound like todays generation "Got to have it now" What the hell happened to working for it saving for it. Just sounds like your throwing a tantrum I expect well be seeing tears soon. GROW UP

AWWwwww.. come on Charlie! Tell us how you really feel! ROFL!!!

I guess we'd all like to have it at our disposal now.. but it surely ain't gonna happen on my budget!

Originally Posted by 34_40

I guess we'd all like to have it at our disposal now.. but it surely ain't gonna happen on my budget!

Isn't it a matter of establishing wants vs true needs? A guy who has plenty of time (read that as "retired") and a reduced income can accomplish a lot with some pretty simple hand tools and a bit of innovation and imagination. For example, the edge of a workbench, a piece of angle iron and a handful of C-clamps makes an effective sheet metal break. It's not as quick, but it'll work. The english wheel? That's one that looks intriguing, but I really cannot see myself investing the time to learn how to use it effectively at this point in life. Same with a planishing hammer - sexy, but am I really going to get into that degree of metal work, and all it really is is a very fast hammer and dolly? I mean, how many times do I really need to hit my thumb with a hammer in the course of thirty seconds, anyway? A lot can be accomplished with a set of hammers and a leather shot bag on a tree stump if it has to be done. For me, if I didn't have anything but simple hand tools and started thinking I was going to outfit a complete shop from scratch post retirement I'd hope that someone in my life would be kicking my butt up between my shoulder blades for throwing good money after bad, and push me toward finding a hobby that I could do with a much smaller investment, like photography or playing music, or painting nudes. OK, maybe not painting nudes - Mama probably wouldn't like that hobby

My shear is a hand held Ingersoll Rand air shear, think I paid $150.00 for it, for small pieces, two hand held sheet metal shears, one for left turns and one for right turns, $15.00 each at Ace. My English wheel is the welder tank, light pole in the alley, different sizes of tubing, some wooden dowels, body hammers, a shot bag, and whatever else has the configuration I need. If it's a large piece, I make a wooden buck out of 3/4" plywood and form on it. My brake is a $50.00, 30" unit I bought from Speedway, for pieces over 30" it's some angle iron screwed to the bench top, some pieces of hardwood, a hammer, and a plastic mallet. A one man shop that is nothing more then a hobby shop doesn't "need" all the expensive equipment, just some common sense and a bit of ingenuity!!!! When I retired from the big shop to my garage, the fancy stuff got sold with the shop, don't have room for it now anyway. Maybe it's time to quit looking in the wish books and just get to work!!!!!!

Looks like Roger and I were typing at the same time!!!!!

HA HA HA!! Painting nudes.. yeah, right!! Playing music? Yeah, I HAD TO get me a Gibson! Then I HAD TO have the Fender amp, then there's lessons and the list goes on!!

It's a curse that we suffer from, being creative and having the desire to create something from nothing..

In my case, I assembled mine beginning in the shop at the farm with simple hand tools, then as the jobs moved the car went too. Even less tools and even smaller shops then garages.. Is mine a show car? Nope, not by any stretch of an imagination, but I did it all and am proud of what I accomplished so far. I already want to repaint it! I am re-doing the motor / trans this winter, and I'm going to do some more to the interior. I'll make it a little bit better, and I'm sure it'll get "re-done" some more next winter too!

My uncle says I should've assembled it with wing nuts as I'm always taking it back apart! LOL..

A lot of things I had never done before but read some books and talked to other folks and planned the work to get it done. Sometime with mixed results but that's the way for a DIY'er.. On the job training has a price and it can be steep sometimes. But I didn't have / don't have a real need for a bunch of expensive tools / equipment for 1 or 2 projects.

HMmm.. looks like Dave & I were typing at the same time! :-)

Yes but you both said tyhe same thing.

Originally Posted by cffisher

Yes but you both said tyhe same thing.

Yeah.. but not as eloquent as YOU!

you should buy all this stuff in hopes of making a honest living with it . then let the bitching begin ?? can i start first? gary you think you need a wheel ? no you want one. plashing power hammer ???ask anyone that seen me wheeled one of my finish hammers . or a slap spoons. sounded like some mad irish man on speed beating out a tune to the river dance with a hammer that was before my fibro took the wind out of me .never had any of the things you think you need and made many panles and fixed alot of bent of body parts every day it the body shops i worked at

TOOLS don't do the job its the guy that knows how to use them. AND THAT you can't buy

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

ask anyone that seen me wheeled one of my finish hammers . or a slap spoons. sounded like some mad irish man on speed beating out a tune to the river dance with a hammer

I'm laughing so hard I'm crying Pat That's quite a picture you put in my head Kinda like when I get some young metro type telling me I should get in touch with my "feminine side"

Originally Posted by glennsexton

I'm laughing so hard I'm crying Pat That's quite a picture you put in my head Kinda like when I get some young metro type telling me I should get in touch with my "feminine side"

hey i went to war every day with them body panels they never did stand any chance my snap on big finish hammer and my slap spoon i beat steel to my will with out a head band on my head

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

hey i went to war every day with them body panels they never did stand any chance my snap on big finish hammer and my slap spoon i beat steel to my will with out a head band on my head

ROFL!!! I can see that Pat! Just PLEASE, PLEASE leave the kilt home!
I feel Gary's pain though. Lots of things I want... The English wheel? Oh yea! The power hammer? Definetly! Do I NEED them? Nope. I can get by with hand tools for most of the sheet metal work I do. Would those machines make the work easier? Maybe, if I knew right off the get-go how to use them. I have got some higher end tools but I didn't pay top dollar for them either. My Pexto Shear I paid 400 bucks for. My 3 in 1 machine I got at HF on sale, works like a charm and I have a shrinker/stretcher set and some shears and a little heavy duty bender. My Mig was purchased from an old employer back in '87 and the Tig was bought as a model closeout. The arbor press was picked up from a friend of a friend and was a "getting a divorce sale". Yea, I have some coin invested in my shop and my equipment but I have spent nowhere near 20 grand on my collection. I guess you just have to look around, shop around and possibly step in the right pile of shit once in while...
You guys have been watching my van build so you know what can be done with a few good pieces of shop equipment and some elbow grease.
Mark