Thread: Let the guessing take wings!

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The old car post about wooden bodies triggered an aircraft memory.

Some may know that Ford got into the aircraft business in 1926. You didn't? Do a search on Ford Tri-motor and learn about it. But another automobile maker of high repute, and enviable style, also took a flyer , so to speak, at aircraft manufacturing. Instead of pursuing the passenger market, he was more interested in SPEED!!!! This aircraft was made of wood laminate, had two of the manufacturers engines, and was intended to go around 500 mph. Alas, we'll never know for sure if it could go that fast. Enormous circumstances prevented it from ever being flown. But the airframe still exists today. Can you name this beauty?

And here's what it looked like undergoing restoration in 1996.

I don't know "Jack" about planes, but I can't wait until someone guesses so I can do a search and read about it...

Dave Brisco

Hey Bob. Is it a Bugatti Aircraft: the 100P/110P Skybug?

See? I leave one tiny little clue, only slightly hidden, and the nimble minded young stud pulls it out. Well, he said he was a computer "geek" (my word, not his ).

Yes Matthew, you win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here's your prize, don't drop it!!

And here's a link for the rest of you who might be interested. http://home.uni-one.nl/bugatti/baa/kalempa.htm

Oh heck (not you Tom) here's a phantom view so you can see how the engines were located too.

Streets, you didn't believe me the other day when I reminded you that I'm ahead of you????!!!!

BTW, no pusher, just counter rotating, dual props. Look closely, you can see the drive shafts going by each side of the pilot's seat. There are soooooo many cool features on this plane!

Don't have time to check for sure, but if I remember right the A models didn't have the "bubble" canopy. It was "flaired" into the rear fuselage section similar to a P40. There were also some differences with the wings regarding "hard points" for armament and aux fuel tanks. May have been a different configuration on the oil cooler "scoop" too, but not as sure of that.

It was the P-51D that had the bubble canopy. The main differenc was the P-51A had a1200 hp Allison V12 and the P-51B had a 1400 hp Packard V12. and the front scoop. The belly scoop on the B protruded from the body

other differences:

.........................P-51A...........................P-51B
maximum speed .....390 mph............440mph
range......................750 miles...........810 miles
ceiling.....................31,350 ft............42000 ft.
bomb capacity........1000 lb...............2000 lb.

Other than that I don't know much about airplanes except for how much Hydraulic fluid you can drain out of em before they crash.

Ah Al, you da man. I'd forgotten about the gutless GM Allison engine being in the A, I had remembered it as only in the prototypes. Here's a comparison drawing between the two. The A model is in O.D.

My crack about the Allison was for your benefit (surprise, surprise), actually the Allison birds were somewhat faster below 12,000 ft than the Merlins, but had an operational ceiling of 20k ft. The Merlins could go 30k.

And the business about the limitations of fighter escort is specious as well. Many authors have glamorized the P51 at the expense of other birds, I suspect because it is such a compelling aircraft. In it's appropriate roll it was very capable, but others were good too. Here's an excerpt that explains what the real limitation on fighter escorts was. Politics, not hardware:

During the second half of 1942 and much of 1943, U.S. heavy bombers suffered great losses as they flew unescorted, daylight missions over enemy territory. The new, high-altitude versions of the Mustang have been heralded as the savior of the bombing campaign. But it must be understood that the reason the bombers were not escorted by fighters during the early months of America's involvement in the European theater was a matter of choice and not because of a lack of adequate fighters.

When he was in command of the 8th Air Force, General Ira Eaker did not believe the bombers needed escort. He thought that the bombers' defensive armament would be protection enough. High rates of losses never deterred him from this belief. Accordingly, Eaker turned down the P-38 Lightnings provided him to protect his bombers. The P-38s, with enough range to escort the bombers to any of their targets, spent time in England with relatively little to do, and many were subsequently sent to Africa.

So I didn't get to fly these things like you geezers. I know all your info comes from memory but I have to cheat and look in a book. I guess my book isn't very accurate. It was written in Italy and printed in Spain so I guess they didn't research it well. Here's my pictures of the P-51s.

oops. I didn't mean for it to be so big.

The Tuskegee Airmen were a valiant lot, as much as any other fighter group. Though the movie likely followed some PC embellishment, they are not to be denied any of their due glory. Nor should any other squadron. All those guys fought a brave and righteous fight. Right up to December 6, 1941 we had too many head in the sand folks who refused to recognize and deal with the evil in the world. Not at all unlike we see to this day. Fortunately the brave always seem to be able to step forward when the rest need them.

By the way, Packard built the Rolls designed Merlin under license, so the engines were virtually identical. Happily the Brits got that one right. And their jet engine designs along with some German technology, were the basis for our early GE engines shortly after WWII.