Thread: ladder bars?

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Ok I know what ladder bars are and what they do, But how do they hook up? The ladder bars I have seen online look like a hook, that goes under the axel, How does it stay connected to the rear axel? How does the axel keep from hopping off the ladder bars? The reason I am wondering is I am looking at putting these on my car rather than a 4 bar link.
Any info on this would be appreciated.
This pic is one from Robs site, www.ammoman.com/chevy . Just not sure how it hooks up and stays in place

Tim,
When I first saw your title line, thought you were going to talk about where firemen go to drink!! Okay, okay, this house painting is starting to get to me.

The bars you show should be considered "race only" pieces. The semi-circular area on the right upper portion of your photo is where it is intended to be welded to the axle housing tubes. The front pivot point looks to be set up for the standard urethane bushings that are typical to most rod control bars. The small end, as you likely already know, gets mounted in a "U" shaped bracket on the frame. The problem, for a street driven car, with these is lack of movement at the axle housing. Works for a race car because they only go straight, and they want some chassis jacking. In your street driven car you want some compliance. Stick with the four bar idea, pivoting at both ends. Besides, that tub wouldn't look right with the "Boy racer bars" hangin' underneath.

Ladder bars are normally welded to the rear end housing. While they are very effective for traction in drag racing they are not very streetable as they will bind the rear suspension and cause the car to ride like a log wagon additionally there are ocassionally ground clearance issues (speedbumps and steep driveways).

These pretty much fall into the hardcore race parts catagory which is why you seldom see them on street cars.

Ok thanks Bob, the reason I was thinking of going with the ladder bars is that I know where I can get a hold of some real cheap (free), these are the ones that Rob is using, Mine are a little different, they are flat in the back, if you draw the yellow line straight rather than up around the cup thats more like the ones I can get. I was told they were for street use, Just not sure how they hook up with out the cup for the axel.
But I will look in the the 4 bar some more see if I can find some around here someplace, Maybe the S-10 rearend I am going to be getting will have them or something similar.
God I love getting free parts for this car.

The reason I am thinking more about the ladder bars is I saw them on a camaro yesterday, Looked real nice on it, But they do look quite low, Thanks Mike for your response, I think I may have to just stay with a normal setup back there.

Tim, sometimes stuff is "free" for a reason! They might be worth exactly what you pay for them!

Based on your expanded description, those were probably bolted to a bracket that was welded to the housing. Still ends up a rigid connection. Perhaps the reference to being a "street" version means that they used rubber bushings at the points where it was bolted to the axle bracket, but that still wouldn't give you enough compliance.

Looks like Mike was typing the same time I was. Since he knows more about this stuff than I do, I'm glad his and mine were so similar.

Ok Bob thanks again. I think I will still take them and turn around and possible sell them for a race setup on Ebay or something. They are still in great shape.

thanks Tech,
Only problem with Leaf spring is this is a mid 20's tub and the rear axel is right at the end of the frame, the only thing thats going to be behind the axel is about 8" of horns for the bumper. So the leaf is out of the question, as I think the side leaf is ugly as sin. So I guess I am stuck with the 4 bar

Seems I recall years ago reading in one of the car magazines about using ladder bars on street cars. As I recall, they used just a couple of U bolts and plates to attach the bars to the axels. The boltsd were not not tight, and allowed the axel to pivot in the ladder bar. This allowed for more movement in the rear axel prior to it binding up (which it would still do). THE BARS WERE FOR LOOKS ONLY as in this configuration they did not prevent spring wrap or wheel hop. This was also at the time when spoilers, fake snorkel hood scoops, 3 ft long shackels, gutted blower cases hiding a carburator, and adaptors to put big block valve covers on small blocks were popular.

Tim, the more you respond the more the picture comes into view. Have you thought of quarter elliptic springs? One, they're very cost effective, particularly as compared to coilovers. Two, they act as two of the four links for locating the axle. You'll still need two bars mounted to the top of the axle housing, and a panhard bar to control lateral movement, but you'll have a relatively simple and, comparitively inexpensive setup. And plenty of room to route exhaust if you're going underneath.

BTW, heed Richard's word about the rear axle straightening after ANY welding on the housing. I bought a '39 Chev coupe with an 8" Ford housing that had had several brackets welded on. Shortly after I got it it munched an axle bearing, causing me to get a flatbed haul home. I pulled the housing, took it to my buddy who has the tooling for straightening, and that housing had about a 3/8" "bow" in it. Doesn't sound like much, but it's enough to hurt the bearings.

This might help people understand what I am building, this is not the body I am using, this is a similar body I found. Mine is older and original.


As you can see by this pic hopefully there is not much room behind the rear doors to move the axel around, the only place for it to go and use the fenders is about a foot from the rear, which leaves a very short leaf, and only a few options for holding the axel in place, I was hoping the ladder bars would work as they are accessible to get, but since all are in agreement they won't I will see about finding the 4 bar link.
Again thanks for all the responses. you guys are great

Hey Street, do you have a pic for me to look at. Maybe it will work for me. I have heard and seen them on street cars. But I figured they had more problems than they were worth with the other posts in here.
What did you do differently with yours?

Thanks streets, I appreciate you taking the time to tell us how you set yours up. I will study this and see if I can work something for mine. I got all winter to do this.

Hey you linked to my pic !, hahaha

Actually Joker51 I dumped those as they were really short and made originally for a Camaro or Chevelle and could only be mounted with the plates inboard on my frame, (outboard hits the frame), I tried relocating the plates then decided on making new ones with parts of those and some new mild steel...

I needed to get the shocks at least on the end of whatever ladder I designed or in a better location..

Everyone says that "the shocks should be as close to the tires as possible and no more than a 30-degree angle", I like the position of these out back, But may add 2 smaller ones outside the frame and in front of the air-spring plate also.. 2 more cant hurt and its not like you can see them under the car

This is what I came up with from the Camaro "whatever they were" ladders and some new steel...







Yes they are tilted, I didn't say I was DONE YET !, hahaha

Rob

I wanted to add more pics/text but the forum trimmed me down...


These will be connected one to the other to add strength later on... and WELDED to the tube when it finished and WORKS...







A smaller shock is planned to go on top of the tube out front and further outboard.., But tell me what direction these ladders are going to let the rearend GO besides just UP and DOWN?


IF you dont like my rears you better not look at my FRONTS hahaha



This is an I-beam from a 1966' Chevy Van that should have leaf springs, Now it has Firestone air-springs inside the frame rails with a home-made "upside down" ladder bar design and plates that BOLT to the leaf spring pads, I drew this in my head in oh.. 1986, LONG before the air-spring craze hit the scene..

Did I mention the manual steering box from a Nova? DOH

I know its gonna ride TIGHT, But know what.. I really dont care.., It's MINE..

It's still not a metalflake Honda with an aluminum wing and a whiny tailpipe !

Maybe the movie industry should re-make a few of the older movies? like 77-Sunset Strip?, Two Lane Blacktop? or California Kid?

If I caught your attention maybe you should see this car from the BEGINNING????

http://www.ammoman.com/chevy

Rob