Thread: Project $ 3 K Is Underway

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Hey Don, I know you played with this before on your T. How much can you expect the rear to drop by removing leafs? I know it is all relative to the condition of the spring pack and other thing's, but just a general idea. Mine has 6 leafs and I would like to bring it down about 1.5 to 2 inches.

Ron

BTW Denny, I never run out of ammo. I must say that is incredible how you do that.

Thanks Denny. Every time I put up a new screensaver, you keep coming up with a better one. Cool.


I don't have a lot of time these days to do much on the T, with this upcoming move. Movers are coming Wednesday the 13th, so I have a lot to get ready for them. But I am going to try to sneak over and get little things done to keep making headway.

Today I installed the tie rod I painted yesterday, and set my toe in. I set it at 1/16 inch, but it may change when I start testing the car. I have seen figures of 1/16 to 1/18 toe in, but these straight axled cars are weird.......no two are alike.
My '27 developed a shake after being on the road for a few years. It would begin to shake after hitting a pothole, and the only thing that would stop it was to hit the brakes for a second. I did everything like new tires, kingpins, reset the caster, etc. Finally, I read an article where the author said sometimes you actually have to go negative on the toe in, and toe it out slightly. Sounded crazy, but I tried it, and the shake never came back. It only took a very slight amount of toe out to do it, and tire wear and all seemed to be fine. Goofy things that work sometimes.

Here is a shot of my tie rod all installed and front end completed. I ordered some parts for the rear spring u bolts last night from Macs Auto parts, and when they show up I can finally bolt the rear spring down for the last time.

Don

Don

whoops..........forgot picture.


BTW, I know my ackerman is not what all the books tell you it should be, but I had no choice. There is no room behind the axle for a tie rod (too much stuff there) and the front was the only place it could go. I really expect no serious problems, as tons of T buckets are running around with similar setups. Even Total Performances supposedly corrected steering arms only work with their small disc brake setups, so I couldn't utilize those.

Tires may scrub a little on turns, but that is the price I have to pay for wanting a low car, I guess. I've always said, there is the perfect world and then there is the real world. Sometimes we have to do things that the experts say will not work, and sometimes they still work fine.

Don

Ackerman, schmackerman. It still drives, it's safe, and it looks cool. Of all the things that can happen in a steering set-up, Ackerman isn't the worst. Negative caster would be a real trip . . .

That's the way I feel Jack.

Ron: I don't know if there is any rule of thumb of drop vs leaf removal. It all depends on which leaves and how many you remove, I guess. More than anything, it just softens the ride I think, but some lowering has to happen, I would imagine. Like Denny said, you just have to try and see.

The reason I left my rear spring pretty much intact is because it was really bouncy when I removed a few of the leaves, and the ones I left on the top of the spring pretty much only contribute to the height of the rear, not the softness so much. I may have to do something different once it hits the road, but for now I can push down and it deflects a little. Tire pressure will be a big factor in ride too, I am going to play with that also.

Bob, it is one of the small memory cards like you described. Come on, inquiring minds want to know the story.

Don


Hey Denny, how do you like the new avatar???????

Ron: I just remembered something. In a typical T or A rear spring setup, sometimes the rear settles down the first time you put some power to the car. My '27 settled down a couple of inches the first time I popped the clutch, and never came back up. I guess the leaves have to orient themselves and settle. Just a thought.

Don

You better stop washing your car with hot water

Don you and Denny have me tripping no just kidding . 4gb man am I behind times here . You know who the real friends are on moving day . Good friends have kept me from movers but damage is about the same . So good luck and just close your eye. Just one eye LOL . Then get back on the T when your done .

Hmmmm... Correct Ackerman is not 100% necessary; in fact, the trend in oval track racing is toward zero Ackerman. Also, if you think about it, a short bed pickup truck and a king cab pickup truck (two dramatically different wheelbases) both use the same front spindles and steering components. The Ackerman angles cannot be 100% correct on both of them so some compromise had to be made. However, after having said that, you will not find a production vehicle anywhere in the world with negative Ackerman. Aside from increased tire scuffing on corners, negative Ackerman can enhance the effects of other problems like incorrect caster, poor alignment, worn kingpins, etc. Notice I said enhance, not cause. The worst problem that negative Ackerman may cause is unpredictable steering input in a corner. As long as you are just cruising at moderate speeds, you will never feel anything strange. I like to find a curvy road occasionally and give it Hell. In that situation, as different wheels load and unload because of weight transfer, negative Ackerman can cause the car to suddenly dart left or right and you find yourself fighting to react and regain control; not fun... I agree with Jack up to a point; negative caster would be a much worse situation on a lightweight car (although some old Cadillacs had 2 degrees negative caster to make them easier to steer at low speeds) and what you have is not necessarily unsafe. Just be aware of what to expect if you ever decide to run the car in a streetkhana / gymkhana.

Your steering arms look like the bolt-on type. If they are forged steel (not cast iron) you can safely heat and bend them down to get the tie rod under the wishbones and put it on the back side,.. if you ever decide you want to do that...

For now, you have bigger fish to fry. That thing is beautiful and we're all anxious to see it finished.

Thanks for the input and nice words guys. Yep, the arms are the forged, bolt on ones, but to bend them enough to clear the lower part of the wishbone would put them about one or two inches off the ground. The lowest part of the car are the two gussets I welded under the wishbones. That, plus there is so much other stuff fighting for space back there.

I think I have enough caster dialed in (7 degrees) that tracking straight should be not a problem, and I am a conservative driver on turns and all, so road manners should be acceptable. I will have to play with front and rear tire pressures to find the best compromise, I bet.

I never knew tire pressures were so critical until I installed a new engine in some guys vette. I pumped the tires up to 32 pounds when I was done working on it, and on the drive home it was all over the road. Worst handling car I had ever driven. I read the door sticker and it gave like 22 to 26 pounds on one end and something else on the other, so I lowered it to those numbers and it was a totally different car.

Don

Interesting reading J.Robinson, I had the darting left syndrome on the first run out this year. Got home and looked underneath and the mount for the strut on the left front had pulled out away from the frame changing everything in the front steering. I jacked it back and welded it up and the car drives great now again. It will scare the hell out of you in a hard right turn to suddenly change lanes. Thank you for explaining what was going on.

Don, good luck with the move, don't hurt your back let the boys lift all the heavy stuff. You can borrow my truck for your move, just pay for the gas..........LOL (cheaper to hire out)
Brad

I'm sitting among boxes right now Brad. Good time to clean out stuff I don't need. Trouble is, I keep finding interesting stuff, like old hot rod magazines I haven't seen for a whiile, and get sidetracked.

Oh. well, I have a week till the movers come.


Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Trouble is, I keep finding interesting stuff, like old hot rod magazines I haven't seen for a whiile, and get sidetracked.


Don

I know just what you mean, Don. I've been trying to clean out my little 2 bd room bunalow for a couple weeks. Keep getting side tracked by the magazines I've accumalated over many years (and don't really need cause it seems everything is on the Net) and odd parts I've collected. Memories and all. Today I finally decided to trash anything I can't use in the next few months. Yeah, like that's working

I went to the driveline shop and gave them the dimensions of my driveshaft yesterday, and today they called........it was ready. Looks good, but I should have thought to tell them not to paint it. Now I have to strip off the black paint they bugbombed on and paint it orange. No biggie, the paint is still fresh, so it should strip pretty easily.

While I was there, the owner of the place came out and said he wanted to show me something in the back. What it was is a 1917 Model T rod he has been building for a few years. He is going to use it as a shop truck, which is why the bed is big and strong. The whole body and bed are handmade from aluminum, and he has done a nice job.

The engine is a 2.8 Chevy V6, with automatic and 9 inch Ford rear. His engineering is well thought out and solid, so I thought some of you might enjoy seeing what "thinking outside the box" can yield. (come to think of it, this rod IS A BOX !! ) But it is still pretty cool.


Don