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Itoldyouso 
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10-20-2007 04:31 AM #1
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- Car Year, Make, Model: 31 Ford Coupe; 32 Ford 3-window
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I'm afraid I have to agree with your son on the turn signals.
Here in geezerland where we live, about a third of the drivers we encounter are severely nearsighted and have the reflxes of 3-day-old road kill.
We need all the advantages we can get.
Ain't it neat how we all learn from each other? I have always used light switches from existing (older) cars becase they have a breaker built in and do not require relays. I like your method, though, becase it allows the use of matching toggle switches. All I need now is to know where I can get some of those relays and how to wire them.
With the high stance of your engine in relation to the cowl, you could (someday) mount a small weatherproof tach on the back of the engine. It would serve a valuable purpose and still look "racy".
Whatever, I really like the look and proportions on your roadster and am looking forward to seeing it in person.
Jim
Racing! - Because football, basketball, baseball, and golf require only ONE BALL!
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10-20-2007 08:20 AM #2
CHR Member
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- Car Year, Make, Model: '27 ford/'39 dodge/ '23 t
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I really should have turn signals, I know, but frankly I just want to get this car done. I'm a little tired of the build, especially cramming both cars into this time crunch we've been under. Dan says he has the entire kit to do it, so I guess this weekend we'll be doing that.
JR, these relays are available at any auto parts store, and for those who might not be familiar with what a relay does, it simply let's you install a high draw item, like an electric fan, without having to pass all that current through the switch. It insures that the accessory gets the full current it needs . If, for example, you just ran a wire from the battery to a switch then to the fan there would be a significant current drop through all of that. However, by using a relay you can run heavier gauge wire right to the accessory and smaller wire to the switch and still get full voltage to the accessory.
I drew up this little diagram to show a typical hookup for one. (Don bought me a fancy schmancy scanner/copier/fax thingy, but I don't know how to use it yet........so I had to resort to taking a picture of my drawing
)
There is a drawing on the side of most relays that show you how to hook them up, but generally your good 12 volt supply comes in on number 30 pin, and the accessory is connected to the pin directly opposite it, Then you connect your switched power to one of the remaining pins, and a ground to the last one. You can do the switching one of two ways........you can make the switch on the positive or negative side, it doesn't matter.
This explanation is rather simplistic, but should serve to sort of explain how they work. I use them on things like headlights, electric fans, electric fuel pumps, etc.
I'm really looking forward to meeting all of you guys at Daytona too JR. Guess we need to start finalizing where and when.
Don
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10-20-2007 10:20 AM #3
CHR Member
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- Sep 2006
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- Angels Camp
- Car Year, Make, Model: '68 Biscayne
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- 79
Don,
I was wondering what you were activating with each switch.
thanks,
Zachariah
PS. I really to love the minimalist look, it is what I want. Also what do you think you have in the wire $ wise?
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10-20-2007 10:34 AM #4
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Zach, next time I am going to buy one of the wiring kits, like Painless or Ron Francis. I always have used marine supplies because I was in that business and got it at cost. But now that I am not I have to pay retail like everybody else, and it is super expensive. I went the other day and bought 5 feet of red and 5 feet of black number 2 battery cable at West Marine, and it cost me $ 86.00.
Originally Posted by oddcarout
A pack of two battery lugs were $ 7.95. Admittedly, the marine grade stuff is super high quality and very corrosion resistant, but I can't afford to buy the stuff anymore. What I have in this job is not too much because I loaded up on wire and terminal ends before I left the industry. I am getting down to the end of my supplies though.
My Son bought a Painless kit to do his T and we looked at it one night. Very impressive. Each wire is marked with where it goes all along the length, and they loom the various circuits and group them together. I bet when we wire his T it will be a cinch, and the cost is probably less than buying individual components and making up your own kit.
As for what each switch does, one is for the electric fan overide (so I can bypass the thermostatically controlled one and run it at will) , the second one is for my electric fuel pump, the third is for my headlights (with a position for off-lo beam-high beam) and the 4th is an extra for future use in case I want to add something. However, it looks like we will be putting the turn signal switch in there now.
Don
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10-20-2007 02:41 PM #5
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- Car Year, Make, Model: 31 Ford Model A
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Don, the wiring looks like I did it, everything nice and neat.....Was I down there ??????? I must be losing my .......... Looks great Don
Brad
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10-20-2007 10:04 PM #6
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- Car Year, Make, Model: '68 Biscayne
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Don,
Thanks. I have thought about getting a P/T job at an auto parts store to get the discout.
and the cost of marine stuff, well you know the saying, a hole in the water that you though money into....
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10-20-2007 11:42 PM #7
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Thanks Brad......it's getting a little more crowded under the drivers seat now though. Dan dug out his turnsignal kit and it has 4 more relays on it and we had to add one more fuse block. He actually did most of the wiring for me today, he used to do it for a living, rigging boats with electronics, etc., so it was nice to have his help.
I found one little thing I had to fix today. I forgot to add a ballast resistor on the primary side of the ignition to bring it down to like 6 volts while running. So I picked one up and installed it under the dash, Problem was, Chevy starters normally have that "I" terminal on the solenoid so that you can run it to the coil and get a full 12 volts while cranking, then when you release the key to the run position the current flows through the resistor, dropping the voltage.
I thought it over and decided I would just put a second wire on the "start" post of the ignition switch, and run it to the coil side of the resistor, that way when you are cranking the current would bypass the resistor and give you 12 volts as long as you held the key over. Well, it doesn't quite work that way. Smoke started pouring out of the resistor as soon as we turned the key to run. Come to find out the "start" post on the gear reduction starter has some resistance due to the internal windings, and it created a dead short. As soon as I removed that new wire I had installed it worked fine.
I guess I am going to only have 6 volts to the coil even when cranking because there is nowhere to pick up 12 volts . We'll see how it starts and go from there.
You are right, oddcarout, I have had boats pretty much all my life, and would have more money today if I hadn't. They are definately worse than cars.
Don
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10-21-2007 06:38 AM #8
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yes thats is right Originally Posted by DennyW
Don, I'm not sure I read this correctly. It sounds like something was wrong.
If you use the resistor in the start circuit, if you came up North, you may not start on a cold morning.
Heres a quick little drawing I just did up. This will give you 12 volts while cranking, and when returned to the run position, it drops out the solenoid, so the 12 volt contact is open, then in the run position, through the resistor for the points. denny nice drawing .i have wired them with out the 12 added shot they work fine with out
Irish Diplomacy ..the ability to tell someone to go to Hell ,,So that they will look forward to to the trip
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10-21-2007 07:04 AM #9
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yes the car it not really set up for the cold we get denny come to think about it i not nether really
Irish Diplomacy ..the ability to tell someone to go to Hell ,,So that they will look forward to to the trip
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10-21-2007 07:20 AM #10
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the good old days laying in the snow bank working on a car for no pay Originally Posted by DennyW
I hear you on the cold weather. And to think I used to lay in the snow and fix trucks in my early days.
Can't do the hot, and can't do the cold. I got to find that place that stays at 70º.
Irish Diplomacy ..the ability to tell someone to go to Hell ,,So that they will look forward to to the trip
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10-21-2007 08:07 AM #11
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What I would give for a couple of those cool days you guys are talking about. It was still 91 here yesterday, and it's mid-October.
Denny, if I look at your drawing correctly, are you showing TWO seperate connections on the starter, one in blue and one in red? Mine only has the fat battery lug and a small lug for the start signal to trigger it.
If you are showing only one, that in essence is what I did, except I connected my wire to the coil side of the resistor rather than down on the starter.
Don
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10-21-2007 09:15 AM #12
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No, I'm talking about my car, not Don's, he has the Ford, mine is Chevy. But I have the Powermaster starter and it doesn't have the normal two little lugs like a stock Chevy starter does. It only has one big lug for the cable and a small one for the start position on the ignition switch to go to. Originally Posted by DennyW
OH, WAIT, YOUR RUNNING A FORD ENGINE IN THERE !! All these Chevy guys have my brain on Chevy.
The Ford solenoid should have 2 small terminals on it. If not, that would be the type I would run. Yes, the starter only has the one big lug ? for the battery cable ?
Don
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10-21-2007 09:52 AM #13
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It is part of the starter. I'm heading to the shop now, and will take a picture for you and post it tonight. Originally Posted by DennyW
Thanks Denny,
Don
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10-21-2007 08:33 AM #14
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Welcome to the dark side....
What if the "Hokey Pokey" is what it's really all about?
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10-21-2007 01:13 PM #15
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I have the stock Chevy starter and the old style (points & coil) distributor on my coupe and had it wired exactly like Denny's diagram. I have used this same method in the past, too. For some reason, though, this time when I did my coupe I had the same problem Don is talking about. When I turned the key to "start", the ballast resistor glowed bright orange! Eventually it damaged the ballast resistor and melted the wire between the coil & solenoid.
I have never had one do that before and don't know why it did it, but I just took that wire out of the system (& replaced the ballast resistor) and the car starts fine on 6 volts.
One last note; if you use a GM HEI distributor it requires a full 12 volts all the time and the ballast resistor & auxiliary start wire are eliminated.
Jim
Racing! - Because football, basketball, baseball, and golf require only ONE BALL!
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