37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

[Irelands child]

Hey Dave,

Was just looking at your interior pics again and had a couple of questions that are somewhat related.....since I'm putting the MC back under the floor and also putting a Lokar shifter on the floor, how big a hole do I need for the shifter? It's the trans-mount 23" Lokar and the instrustions do not address the size hole needed. I assume it will need to be big enough to remove the shifter part of the mechanism if I ever have to pull the tranny again. I guess it will also depend on what size shifter boot I get......any thoughts?

Also, did you make your console or buy it like that?

Where do you intend to put your gas pedal and brake pedal in relation to where your steering column goes through the floor?

Oh, and how ya been? We haven't chatted for a few days....LOL! I've been busy fitting my new floor. It's requiring a little trimming here and there and my brake pedal is going to need some modification to clear the big block firewall. Getting the last section of the trans cover to fit is going to be the great challenge after trimming the toe boards. I'm a little concerned about having enough room for the gas pedal next to the brake pedal. If I had really big feet, it would be even more worrysome I think....

Anyway, hope all is well on your end.

Randy

Sounds like you have been busy - as I have. With owning a pretty good size house and on a fairly large lot, plus a pickup truck that is getting a bit along in age, I'm busy - then there is my hobby car . Spring raking and cleaning the yard, a brake job on my truck (started making noises on the way home from looking at the one mentioned above) just to make life interesting. My wife got back from England and I had to at least clean the worst of my mess in the house up before she got here. So, all is fine here (or should I say normal) and hope you are doing well.

OK - with the floorboard hole hole for the shifter - if you know which bolt holes on the gold colored plate it will be finally mounted (may need the seats in) you have to start out with a center line of the shifter assembly and carefully measure it up. The actual hole for mine is is quite small, 3.250 long by 3.50 wide. See the photo (you will also get a chance to see some of my welds BEFORE I took a short course). The cheaper Lokar boot is too small to fit well. This entire process is touchy as centerlines are kinda tough to define.
The e-brake hole is that oblong hole next to the shifter hole

The console was made up of 3/8" tubing and some sheet metal and some ABS plastic, then covered with the interior upholstery. The front cover metal has cutouts for a JVC stereo, an AC/heat vent and their controls. I bracketed it to the floor - see the channel just behind the shifter hole and to the dash. This console is not done yet - the covering still needs some finishing and the accessory holes trimmed out.

The gas pedal is fairly close to the steering column with the top of the pedal bell crank being generally in line with the Edelbrock carb. Foot room is at a premium and my size 12's are........

I did have to modify the brake pedal using my torch, a vise, hammer and crescent wrenches. This was a TCI error - wrong pedal arm but close enough to be made to fit with some judicious gas wrench help.

Hope this is some help to you.

Later

[randyr]

Dave, thanks for the pics of the console. Now that I have a welder, maybe I'll try my hand at something like that. There's also an ABS plastic place not too far from me too.

I finished fitting my floors today and started welding until I ran out of wire. I was still using the little spool that came with the welder. I'm set up with the argon now, too, but haven't started using it yet. I've cleaned the body flanges that the new floor attaches to but they still aren't all that clean so I thought the standard no-gas might work better for dirtier metal. I'm going to use gas around the firewall though. That needs to look really good. I'm really stoked about the new floors though. I think I did a pretty decent job of fitting them and can't wait to get them all welded up. I probably exceeded my grinding & cutting limit today in the noise polution department. Fortunately, there was only one person home on the back side of my apartment building today.... she's 87 and hard of hearing. I still like to be considerate by not making too much noise for too long of a time. I often roll the car back in the garage and shut the door to minimize the noise.

Anyway, hopefully I can take a couple of pics of my progress tomorrow.

I know what you mean about having too many things to fix. At least I don't have a lawn to mow so that's one thing off my list.

R2

[Irelands child]

I finished fitting my floors today and started welding until I ran out of wire. I was still using the little spool that came with the welder. I'm set up with the argon now, too, but haven't started using it yet. I've cleaned the body flanges that the new floor attaches to but they still aren't all that clean so I thought the standard no-gas might work better for dirtier metal. I'm going to use gas around the firewall though.
Anyway, hopefully I can take a couple of pics of my progress tomorrow.

I know what you mean about having too many things to fix. At least I don't have a lawn to mow so that's one thing off my list.

R2

You are right with the kinda dirty metal with no gas though I would still use MIG/gas combo on the fire wall. Gas (acetylene) welding puts way too much heat in the steel and causes a lot of warping - then you will be spending a bunch of time shrinking the metal plus hammer and dolly work. You can run .5 to 1.0 inch stitch welds with the MIG by going from one side, doing a couple of welds 4-6 inches apart then going to the other side.

(Don't forget to change the polarity when you switch to MIG w/argon)

Looking forward to seeing some pictures.

Back to my yard work before some more April showers. Sigh....
Dave

[randyr]

[QUOTE=Irelands child]You are right with the kinda dirty metal with no gas though I would still use MIG/gas combo on the fire wall. Gas (acetylene) welding puts way too much heat in the steel and causes a lot of warping - then you will be spending a bunch of time shrinking the metal plus hammer and dolly work. You can run .5 to 1.0 inch stitch welds with the MIG by going from one side, doing a couple of welds 4-6 inches apart then going to the other side.

(Don't forget to change the polarity when you switch to MIG w/argon)


Yeah, I will definitely use the mig/gas combo on the firewall. Direct Sheetmetal's instructions recommend welding through the 5/16" holes I drilled for removing the spot welds of the old firewall then doing the "stitch weld around the edges to finish it off, rotating from one side of the car to the other to minimize heat/warpage, etc.

I'm lovin this! How did I make it all these years without a welder?

[Irelands child]

[
I'm lovin this! How did I make it all these years without a welder?

I have welded 'stuff' that I would have thrown away, BW (before welder)
My guess is that I have gone thru 20 rolls of wire and 15 bottles of gas (they are ~1:1). The only reason I never went to the big rolls is that ratio. Word of warning, turn the gas off if you aren't welding, even for 15 minutes - you would be amazed as to how fast it can leak down - and they all do it.

Gotta get back to raking - supposed to rain tonight and need to at least clean up my piles of leaves. The nutso across the street piles her leaves for squirrel beds (I've counted over of the 25 tree rats at one time there) and just to make sure that the rest of the neighborhood gets plenty of spring exercise cleaning up what has blown away. I'm downwind so get most of them - and she refuses to rake hers up until early summer .

Amazing how few others chime in tho we have had over 1400 views on this thread.

Dave

[randyr]

I have welded 'stuff' that I would have thrown away, BW (before welder)
My guess is that I have gone thru 20 rolls of wire and 15 bottles of gas (they are ~1:1). The only reason I never went to the big rolls is that ratio. Word of warning, turn the gas off if you aren't welding, even for 15 minutes - you would be amazed as to how fast it can leak down - and they all do it.


Amazing how few others chime in tho we have had over 1400 views on this thread.

Dave

Yes, I've heard that about turning off the gas. My bottle is kinda small so I will have to watch that carefully or I'll run out way too fast.

You're right, it is pretty amazing......1400 views seems like a lot.....maybe they get bored with our babble between the car stuff.... but hey, I still enjoy it! plus I'm learning stuff in the process.

I probably should have documented my floorboard replacement more carefully but I guess I just get too involved in the process to stop and snap a photo.....it'll be more like a before/after story....

[randyr]

I've shown you the before/after pics of my firewall in previous posts. Here's the before and after of my trans mount. In the before pic, when my dad & I originally built the car, we cut out enough of the x to get the c4 trans thru it then created a mounting bracket.....the trans mount slid into the slots, then a steel plate was drilled and bolted to the trans and to the mounting plate to hold it secure. It wasn't much to look at and I don't think it was really all that strong, but I drove it that way for 80K miles....


The new one give more room and is much stronger. I also beefed up the brackets that run from the x-member to the frame rails by welding a 1"x 1/8 strap around the perimeter of the top and x-member side, then redrilled the holes. It stiffened it up considerably. I failed to take a pic of that. I've painted the frame since these pics and got so anxious to get the floor in that I covered up before taking a picture of it from the top....oh well....

Will get some better pics of the floor in a day or so.....

[Irelands child]

Good solid looking frame, Randy. All those holes that Ford put in it, mostly, if my recollection is correct, for the original mechanical brakes and their various brackets. I suspect that most of the cracks you had to fix were caused directly or indirectly from stress. Next major with a body-off in another 20 years or so you can fill them in and do a frame box

Have you considered a journal to post your pictures? I started one but each photo had to be sized correctly and loaded individually and is a time eater so have not kept it up. I do intend on eventually updating it for "posterity".

Crummy wet weather, but warm, relatively speaking, for a Californian today so will be a "car day" rather then a yard ( I've told my wife that the next house will be in a former hay field rather then the woods )
Dave

[randyr]

Good solid looking frame, Randy. All those holes that Ford put in it, mostly, if my recollection is correct, for the original mechanical brakes and their various brackets. I suspect that most of the cracks you had to fix were caused directly or indirectly from stress. Next major with a body-off in another 20 years or so you can fill them in and do a frame box

Have you considered a journal to post your pictures? I started one but each photo had to be sized correctly and loaded individually and is a time eater so have not kept it up. I do intend on eventually updating it for "posterity".

Crummy wet weather, but warm, relatively speaking, for a Californian today so will be a "car day" rather then a yard ( I've told my wife that the next house will be in a former hay field rather then the woods )
Dave

Thanks Dave, the frame looks much better now that it's painted. There are a lot of extraneous holes, some from the previous trans mount, some from exhaust brackets, some from the factory, some from what seemed to be logical choices at the time...etc...It will definitely never be a "show car" frame but as long as it's safe & decent looking, I'll be okay with it for a while. My dad & I did a body-off build on the car when we first built it. The next time the body comes off will be to set it on a nice new TCI chassis! But who knows when that will be??? They may have outlawed streetrods by then!!!

I've been trying to take pics when I can. I have considered posting them in a journal but just haven't done it yet. When I download them from my camera, I size them for emailing purposes. Don't know if that's the right size for the journal site or not but hopefully will check it out soon.

Be thankful for the rain. It gives you a chance to play with your car . It's supposed to be 80 and sunny here today but we're currently under a "marine layer", west coast terminology for "clouds". It should burn off by noonish. It's not always sunny in SoCal, much to my dismay!

[randyr]

OK - with the floorboard hole hole for the shifter - if you know which bolt holes on the gold colored plate it will be finally mounted (may need the seats in) you have to start out with a center line of the shifter assembly and carefully measure it up. The actual hole for mine is is quite small, 3.250 long by 3.50 wide. See the photo (you will also get a chance to see some of my welds BEFORE I took a short course). The cheaper Lokar boot is too small to fit well. This entire process is touchy as centerlines are kinda tough to define.
The e-brake hole is that oblong hole next to the shifter hole

I also posed the same question about hole size for the shifter to Lokar....they just responded with the recommendation of using a 4" hole saw to cut the hole for the shifter. I don't know if I've seen a hole saw that big I guess it mostly depends on the type of shifter boot I decide on.....

[Irelands child]

I also posed the same question about hole size for the shifter to Lokar....they just responded with the recommendation of using a 4" hole saw to cut the hole for the shifter. I don't know if I've seen a hole saw that big I guess it mostly depends on the type of shifter boot I decide on.....

That will work - you will just have to square it off with metal trimmers (if necessary).
This is what you need - 4" hole saw, an arbor to mount it on and a Jilson Metal Shear (http://www.jilson.com/shears.htm).

You can buy the hole saw and arbor from McMaster Carr
( http://www.mcmaster.com/) and the shear from Eastwood though I paid a lot less from someone else (
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...emType=PRODUCT)

McMaster-Carr has all kinds of good stuff - my orders get to me overnight as yours probably would as they have a warehouse in LA. They ship at cost. Lots of good fasteners and other misc. hardware - much better then Home Despot or Lowes and equivalent or better then Fastenal.

Dave

[randyr]

Hey Dave,
I finished welding the new floor.....here's some pics.....overall I was pretty happy with and and once I prime & paint it, it'll look much better. I'll seal all the seams with a good body sealer after I prime. Of course, then I'll cover it all up with Dynamat or something....LOL. I still have to drill the holes for the various body-to-frame mounts throughout the floor but that won't be a big deal. I know where they go.

I switched to mig/gas yesterday and started welding the firewall. That's a whole different experience. The guy at the gas shop suggested running the gas at 22lbs of pressure for welding indoors. I've welded the entire firewall, including the bead around the edge and I'm out of gas now. It seems like it went pretty quickly but it's a pretty small bottle. I have some grinding a prepping to do in finishing up but I think it's going to look pretty good.....a far cry better than the butchered firewall that was in there

[randyr]

Crap! It didn't give me a chance to attach the pics ......here they are...

[randyr]

Sorry, those are crappy pics!!! Will take some better ones and repost. Don't pay any attention to the big bowl of spagetti wiring. It didn't look anything like that before I started tearing things out but I've left things sorta hooked up until I start re-wiring.....

[Irelands child]

Randy
Ya caught me coming out from under my truck. Maintenance time - oil and filters then on to more '31 body work. The body work is extermely dusty, with the sanding of fillers and paints that it takes some effort to get into the process. I do not envy a pro body man

The floor looks very nice, and you are making great progress - need some sauce with that spaghetti tho. Welding with gas is a whole lot better way to go - no splatter, and really easier.

For seam sealer, 3M has some brushable stuff (expensive) that works nicely. Make sure you use it with plenty of fresh air - it can put you in la-la land for a while and it wasn't even fun getting that way.

I'm using some Dyna-Mat but only to stop resonances from doors and quarter panels. I'm also using a ceramic foil backed material that I bought from Juliano's and a synthertic rug underlayment material rather then the usual jute pad. This is the stuff I have and will also use it for fender protection from rocks. http://www.foambymail.com/Volara.html. Take a look at this - a lot cheaper then Dyna-Mat as well as a lot lighter.