37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

[randyr]

Randy


If you don't like the 23" Lokar, they do sell the 16" arm separately. I did the same thing and changed to the shorter version. An easy change that direction, but you can't go back again. I have my resevations on the floorboard version though. I think if I was to go that way, I'd probably go for a B&M cable version as they do work well - even their cheapest Z-Gate.


Later

Oh...forgot to ask....does something have to be permanently modified to put the shorter shifter handle on this unit? Yeah, I'm not sure about their floorboard version either. I've never seen one in person. It just the idea of it that sounds like it might give me more mounting flexibility. All the labels on mine say it's for a C4 however, the mounting bracket for the right side won't work without some modification and the rear mounting piece needs a little trimming too. I don't know why that is. I'm sure my trans is a C4. Seems like nothing is ever a simple "bolt-on" process, huh?

I'd probably send it all back and start over but in an effort to save a few bucks, I bought it from one of those streetrod parts conglomerates in Iowa on Ebay. Trying to get anything from them is a huge PITA!!! The "savings" is often hardly worth it!!!!

[Irelands child]

Oh...forgot to ask....does something have to be permanently modified to put the shorter shifter handle on this unit? Yeah, I'm not sure about their floorboard version either. I've never seen one in person. It just the idea of it that sounds like it might give me more mounting flexibility. All the labels on mine say it's for a C4 however, the mounting bracket for the right side won't work without some modification and the rear mounting piece needs a little trimming too. I don't know why that is. I'm sure my trans is a C4. Seems like nothing is ever a simple "bolt-on" process, huh?

I'd probably send it all back and start over but in an effort to save a few bucks, I bought it from one of those streetrod parts conglomerates in Iowa on Ebay. Trying to get anything from them is a huge PITA!!! The "savings" is often hardly worth it!!!!

You're up early today !!

When you change over the shifter from a long to a short handle, you have to cut the cable that runs down the center. While it for sure can be converted back again to a long one, you get into complete disassembly and probably would be best to go back to Lokar then. Probably best to exchange thru (assume) Yogi's - who are one of the better mail order folks. I've had several excellant transactions thru them - including exchanging my 17 gallon gas tank for the 15 gallon version 2 years later. Also, they supplied my rear 17" Billet Specialties wheels last year - transporting them to York and saving me much in shipping (and possible UPS damage) plus being $50 each cheaper then anyone else. If you buy from them at an NSRA show, they often ship free plus have a good price.

IMO, I don't think the under dash e-brake handle is a viable option on a small body Ford car up thru '40. After that, there gets to be a lot more room. Of course, others will take objection to this, but - so be it !!!

This is what a C4 should look like - it has a separate bell housing as Ford used it as their 'grunt' trans from everything from a 4 cyl to a pretty good sized V8.

NOW I GOTTA SAND !!!!! PAINT!!!!!

[randyr]

You're up early today !!

When you change over the shifter from a long to a short handle, you have to cut the cable that runs down the center. While it for sure can be converted back again to a long one, you get into complete disassembly and probably would be best to go back to Lokar then. Probably best to exchange thru (assume) Yogi's - who are one of the better mail order folks. I've had several excellant transactions thru them - including exchanging my 17 gallon gas tank for the 15 gallon version 2 years later. Also, they supplied my rear 17" Billet Specialties wheels last year - transporting them to York and saving me much in shipping (and possible UPS damage) plus being $50 each cheaper then anyone else. If you buy from them at an NSRA show, they often ship free plus have a good price.

IMO, I don't think the under dash e-brake handle is a viable option on a small body Ford car up thru '40. After that, there gets to be a lot more room. Of course, others will take objection to this, but - so be it !!!

This is what a C4 should look like - it has a separate bell housing as Ford used it as their 'grunt' trans from everything from a 4 cyl to a pretty good sized V8.

NOW I GOTTA SAND !!!!! PAINT!!!!!

Well, I hope you got lots of sanding done yesterday!
Thanks for the pics. Everytime you send them, I find more stuff to ask about....LOL.....My trans is a C4 like yours. Since it's in the car at the moment and I haven't looked at it for a few days, I can't remember my exact fitment problems on the shifter bracket.....it had something to do with the bracket on the passenger side being about 3/4" too short to reach the servo cover bolt where it's supposed to attach. Will give it another look with fresh eyes and see if I missed something. I put the trans in to figure out where to cut the hole in the floor for the shifter. Oh, BTW, the conglomerate in Iowa that I used list themselves as Fatrodder on Ebay. I think they are part of Gearhead Enterprises in Waterloo, IA. Some of these places offer pretty good prices for stuff but just hope you never have to return or exchange it! Good to know Yogis has been good for you to deal with.

Here's another question from your pics.....the fittings (ANR?) you've used all over it.....do the ones you used on the brake lines still require flaring the line? My dad used to work for a company that built airplanes and they used those fittings a lot. I have several left over from his stash but they're all too big for brake lines. I'll find other places for them.

Oh, the guy who sold me the rear disc conversion kit FIVE MONTHS AGO is apparently never going to send it. I guess I'm officially screwed & robbed! So if any of you reading this have occasion to do business with a guy in Baldwin City, KS who goes by bills90lxcoupe@aol.com, forgottenfoxfords@aol.com, Darrell Payne, or Late Model Parts in Baldwin City, KS, just BEWARE! You may NEVER get what you paid for!!

However, I saw a bracket the other day to convert 96-04 Mustant Cobra discs to the small bearing 9". Those look pretty cool and have the E-brake built into the caliper. I'm still researching it but it appears that a resourceful person could do the conversion affordably. I know you're a big Wilwood fan and yours appear to be great. I'm a ways from needing to be able to stop the car yet, but just trying to plan ahead.....LOL....

[Irelands child]

Well, I hope you got lots of sanding done yesterday!
....... I'm a ways from needing to be able to stop the car yet, but just trying to plan ahead.....LOL....

Randy,

The muscles in my right arm are 4" larger then my left arm and my right hand takes an XXXL glove and my left an XL - all from sanding. I think I am 100%done with the 26 loose parts and 50% of the body itself. Then begins the next coats of 2K and polyester primers, final blocking then paint. The firewall, gas tank and splash shields are ready for final paint. Whoopee

You have to leave all of the top bracket bolts loose as well as the 2 bolts that go into the servos - left servo, front bolt, right servo, back bolt. When you get the bolts started, then you need to tighten them a bit at a time. Lokar makes good parts, but their instructions are crap. I complain to them about it every time I see them at a show. I also cut about 3" of the shifter top plate off as my floorbords were real close.

There are some nice conversions for the late model Mustang/Explorer to 9" rears. A bolt on, not a weld on is the best way to go - you wont bend the housing with a bolt on version.

I have a lot of AN fittings all over the car - and yes, they do require a single 37 degree flare rather then the double 45 degree. Also, if you are using SS, tubing you are "required" to use an AN/single flare setup as this kind of tubing will split trying to double it over on itself (I do hear the detractors screaming - but they are WRONG). This, below, is the tooling required - about $150 worth.

Sounds like you have given up on your brakes - hope you get Evilbay to ban him if nothing else. I guess I've been lucky as I have only had one totally bad $45 transaction there.

Gotta pack the surplus treasures for my York trip, but will be back here on and off today, then, unless my hotel has a free PC, wont be back until Sunday night/Monday morning(I'm too cheap to buy a laptop).

Have a good one

[randyr]

Randy,


You have to leave all of the top bracket bolts loose as well as the 2 bolts that go into the servos - left servo, front bolt, right servo, back bolt. When you get the bolts started, then you need to tighten them a bit at a time. Lokar makes good parts, but their instructions are crap. I complain to them about it every time I see them at a show. I also cut about 3" of the shifter top plate off as my floorbords were real close.

There are some nice conversions for the late model Mustang/Explorer to 9" rears. A bolt on, not a weld on is the best way to go - you wont bend the housing with a bolt on version.

I have a lot of AN fittings all over the car - and yes, they do require a single 37 degree flare rather then the double 45 degree. Also, if you are using SS, tubing you are "required" to use an AN/single flare setup as this kind of tubing will split trying to double it over on itself (I do hear the detractors screaming - but they are WRONG). This, below, is the tooling required - about $150 worth.

Sounds like you have given up on your brakes - hope you get Evilbay to ban him if nothing else. I guess I've been lucky as I have only had one totally bad $45 transaction there.

Gotta pack the surplus treasures for my York trip, but will be back here on and off today, then, unless my hotel has a free PC, wont be back until Sunday night/Monday morning(I'm too cheap to buy a laptop).

Have a good one

Sounds like you need to become ambidextrous with your sanding

As for the shifter bracket, I didn't tighten anything up on it. The piece that attaches to the 2 holes on the tail shaft required a little grinding just to slide in place for the bolts to go thru them. That was my first clue that maybe they had mis-labled this bracket.....I'm sure I can make it work. I'm just not sure what all that's going to involve yet. Good to know you cut your top plate off 3". I thought it looked shorter than mine in the pic.

As for the "brake guy", I didn't win the original auction but was 2nd high-bidder. He contacted me after the auction with the same deal on another kit. I paid thru Paypal and thought I was safe by doing so. After 46 days of empty promises, I reported him to Paypal. Of course their cutoff for reporting a claim is 45 days so they have been completely worthless in helping me with this. Ebay has been worthless too. Now I won't buy from anybody without an actual phone number and physical address and if I haven't received the item in 2 weeks, I report them to Paypal. I don't want to give paypal an opportunity to screw me again either. I was finally able to contact the winner of the original auction who said he finally got his parts but it took a lot of time and a few "reminder" emails. The guy has received plenty "reminders" from me but so far, nothing!

Enough of my bitching! LOL! So, are you taking a lot of stuff to sell at the big show?

[Irelands child]

Sounds like you need to become ambidextrous with your sanding ............................


Enough of my bitching! LOL! So, are you taking a lot of stuff to sell at the big show?

Not a chance of me being ambidextrous - that requires equally adept brain halves and I've always been accused of only having half a brain ( or was that half a$$ed ??)

I've been cleaning house for several years so my truck is only about 75% full of treasures - some of the recycled parts have more miles on them in the truck bed then the original car - 2ea 8" diffs, a 9", a buzz box welder, 20+ years of Street Rodder Magazine, a set of NEW '32 tail lights and bracket I decided not to use, etc, etc, etc.

We are at 2088 now

Catch you next week

[randyr]

Hey Dave....

How did you do at the NSRA show? I hope you got rid of all your treasures and got to see some inspirational cars to boot....

I've been busy doing stuff to mine. I'm attaching some pics. They are "construction photos." Once I get everything fitted I'll pull it back apart to prep and paint the stuff.

I got innovative on my steering column and hookup. First I used a mid-80's Camaro column because it was cheap and I wasn't ready to shell out the bucks for Ididit or Flaming River. Because this column is collapsable, I was able to shorten it about 1.5" by gently tapping it on the end with a block of wood and a hammer. Both the shaft inside the column and the housing are collapsable, which made the shortening a piece of cake. I got this column because I'm switching to floor shift and my old column was column shift. The Camaro column also has the lower mounting bracket built onto it which worked out fine for me. I was able to form one of the ears around the curve of my firewall and when it's all finished under there, I think it should look pretty clean and be sturdy, too.

The Camaro column is 1"DD on the end so my splined u-joint from my previous shaft wouldn't work either. Also, with this new setup I needed a 3rd u-joint to go around my headers. The clowns that installed my Mustang II frontend back in the 80's welded the u-joints to a solid steel shaft. I've read many posts saying you shouldn't do that, but it lasted fine for 20-some years. Those u-joints are still in good shape but I could only use the one on the rack end. For the other end I got the steering linkage from a Chevy Astrovan. It had the right size DD for my column and I was able to mate the other end to my existing shaft. I plug welded a steel sleave onto my existing 1/2" shaft then ground it down to squeeze tightly into the bolted/splined bottom joint from the Astro van. Then I welded the joint to the shaft to make sure it holds. The Astro linkage collapses so if I need to remove it, I can. That should hold me until I'm ready to plunk down $200-300 bucks on the fancy stuff. The mechanism works smoothly and clears my headers by about an inch. Plus I was able to find an oil filter that would clear on the bottom end so I don't have to use a remote or an adapter. The filter I have on at the moment is a Bosch Premium 3321 which fits a bunch of Volvos, etc. Another filter that should work is the one that fits later model Dodge 318 engines ( Fram PH16 or some better brand). It's about 1/4" longer than the one I'm using but I plan to get one to see if it works for sure.

It took forever to get my brake pedal cut down to fit my floor. It was too long to work with the new firewall and also needed the angle changed to give room for my gas pedal. I've cut it, welded it and bent it everyway you can imagine..LOL ...I still have just a little more tweaking to do on it but it's functional at least.

The throttle pedal is a Lokar knockoff that connects under the floor so I don't have a cable hole in my fire wall. I think it's going to work nicely.

I still haven't cut the hole for my shifter or mounted the E-brake handle but I'll get to that soon.....

That's enough babbling for now.....here are some pics of my progress....

Hope things are well on your end...
Later,
Randy

[Irelands child]

Hi Randy
Been a while since we "conversed" but I haven't spent a lot of time on-line. I Got back from York Sunday late afternoon and was reminded by my wife that we were going camping Wednesday and that the trailer wasn't ready - groan. this means another 4-5 days of no progress and summer is movin' on.

One good thing happened while camping - a big car show, tho mostly vintage resto, was under way in Manchester, Vermont (the East Coast's version of Oregon). While there weren't too many rods, the oldies were fun. Also, there was a hill climb event on the way to Manchester - and a couple of '30s Bugatti's goin' thru the gears, MG's and some odd ball homebuilts

The trip to York's swap meet was a sucess as I sold about everything that I really wanted to except for a couple of 8" and a 9" differential. As a matter of fact, there was so little left that I shut down and 'wandered' Saturday afternoon and Sunday.

I had never seen so many '37s before and a lot were new builds. I think about every model was there - and probably two of each. Convertibles, coupes, club coupes(my fave), phaetons, slant backs, 2 and 4 door humps and even a few Minotti, Coast to Coast and Oze phantom. I'll post all of the pictures on Photobucket or similar site as soon as I have a chance.

Ford has a 1/2 size filter as well, FL-300S which may work and may be the same as the Dodge (A Fram - will NEVER be on my engines)

Your steering looks good - hefty stuff but sure serviceable and a very nice installation. Our junk yards with one exception are not very good - with one exception, you can't wander and take it apart yourself. That brake pedal looks like one more angle adjustment will get it done.

Now - I have to get to work on my car parts !!!!!

I hope all is well there on the Left Coast

Later

[randyr]

Hi Randy
Been a while since we "conversed" but I haven't spent a lot of time on-line. I Got back from York Sunday late afternoon and was reminded by my wife that we were going camping Wednesday and that the trailer wasn't ready - groan. this means another 4-5 days of no progress and summer is movin' on.

One good thing happened while camping - a big car show, tho mostly vintage resto, was under way in Manchester, Vermont (the East Coast's version of Oregon). While there weren't too many rods, the oldies were fun. Also, there was a hill climb event on the way to Manchester - and a couple of '30s Bugatti's goin' thru the gears, MG's and some odd ball homebuilts

The trip to York's swap meet was a sucess as I sold about everything that I really wanted to except for a couple of 8" and a 9" differential. As a matter of fact, there was so little left that I shut down and 'wandered' Saturday afternoon and Sunday.

I had never seen so many '37s before and a lot were new builds. I think about every model was there - and probably two of each. Convertibles, coupes, club coupes(my fave), phaetons, slant backs, 2 and 4 door humps and even a few Minotti, Coast to Coast and Oze phantom. I'll post all of the pictures on Photobucket or similar site as soon as I have a chance.

Ford has a 1/2 size filter as well, FL-300S which may work and may be the same as the Dodge (A Fram - will NEVER be on my engines)

Your steering looks good - hefty stuff but sure serviceable and a very nice installation. Our junk yards with one exception are not very good - with one exception, you can't wander and take it apart yourself. That brake pedal looks like one more angle adjustment will get it done.

Now - I have to get to work on my car parts !!!!!

I hope all is well there on the Left Coast

Later

Hey Dave,

Good to hear from you. Glad your York trip was a success and sounds like you got a little unplanned camping R&R on top of that. I understand how it's difficult to fully enjoy some of those things when the clock is ticking on your "hobby agenda". Anyway, look forward to checking out the pics when you post them.

Funny, until the last year or so I didn't know Fram was considered to be such a bad oil filter. I had been using them for years on my driver cars with no reprocussions but I've listened to the wise-ones from all my forum research and won't be using them anymore. I'm still familiar with some of their numbers tho and their website has been helpful for cross-referencing numbers for suitable replacements. I do like the rubber-grip coating they put on the end of it which makes it easy to remove without the obnoxious contraptions designed for oil filter removal. I can get a good grip with my bare hands. I'm aware of the Ford 1/2 size filter but I think it's around 1/4 to 1/2 inch longer than the Dodge or Volvo filter I found. That amount is critical in this location. Many of the newer aftermarket Mustang II crossmembers tilt the R&P mounting back a bit which would make it much easier to use the regular Ford filter.

As for the brake pedal, I need to get the direction of travel raised so the pedal isn't at such a weird angle when fully released. Here's where some engineering would come in handy, I suppose...LOL.....I established a pivot point on my workbench tried to adapt the pedal so it will go thru it's range of travel with a minimal hole size but so far that has given me the result you see. I'd like the shaft coming thru the floor to be more perpendicular to the floor when fully released. It's been challenging to do that while clearing things on the frame, etc. If you have any bright ideas that would make this process more exact rather than trial & error, I'd be delighted to hear them!

Anyway, gotta get to the gym and on with my day.....good to hear from you.
Have you checked out the number of views lately? Still nobody joins in our chat.....LOL....maybe they just scroll thru the pics, get bored and look elsewhere....LOL!!!

Check ya later,
Randy

[randyr]

Wow, Dave, it's been over a month since I've posted or heard from you.....I'm guessing you have that car painted by now, right??? LOL!

Things are moving slowly on mine. Too many irons in the fire plus I went to Okla for a family reunion. It's all good.

Here's a couple of pics....I put the 11" brakes & dropped spindles on the front.....still haven't epoxy'd the firewall & floor boards yet. I'm getting all necessary fitting done around the engine then I'll pull it back out to prime & paint the floors, etc.

Hope all is well on the other side of the world.....talk soon.....


Randy

[Irelands child]

Wow, Dave, it's been over a month since I've posted or heard from you.....I'm guessing you have that car painted by now, right??? LOL!

Things are moving slowly on mine. Too many irons in the fire plus I went to Okla for a family reunion. It's all good.

Here's a couple of pics....I put the 11" brakes & dropped spindles on the front.....still haven't epoxy'd the firewall & floor boards yet. I'm getting all necessary fitting done around the engine then I'll pull it back out to prime & paint the floors, etc.

Hope all is well on the other side of the world.....talk soon.....


Randy

Hi Randy,
Must have read my mind - I started to put a note together to you late last week and one of those proverbial "irons in the fire" reared its' ugly head. Car painted? Only in my dreams !!!! But it is fully primed, with a bit more body smoothing the Brookville screwups then MORE primer then paint - I threw out my 'schedule'.

Yours is really looking great - that smooth firewall is so much nicer then an OEM '37.

More, possibly today - irons today, Wednesday, then daughter #1 and grandchildren Friday for a week tho I am going to a Right Coast Nationals at Syracuse NY on Saturday regardless. And I wonder why my car isn't done.

[mark craig]

One quick question when replacing firewall do you have to put temporary
bracing in before removing old firewall have a 34 want to replace firewall
following your build thanks mark PS body on frame like yours

[randyr]

One quick question when replacing firewall do you have to put temporary
bracing in before removing old firewall have a 34 want to replace firewall
following your build thanks mark PS body on frame like yours

Hey Mark,

Since the body was still bolted to the frame, I didn't bother to do any temporary bracing before removing the firewall. I left the back half of the floorboards in place during the firewall removal & replacement too. If I was going to be jacking the car up during the process, I made sure the doors were closed and things like that to sorta keep things in place. Apparently nothing shifted because everything still fits & works just fine. The instructions didn't suggest any additional bracing either but it certainly makes sense to take it easy with the car while the firewall is out because it gets a little rickety.
Are you replacing the floors too? After I secured the new firewall in place with the screws, I went ahead and removed the rest of the floor so I could clean & paint that part of the frame & modify the x-member. Even with the firewall just screwed in place, much of the structural integrity returned.

Here's a couple of pics of it with the firewall out......please disregard the big mess of wires.....they're getting replaced soon.....LOL

Hope that helps......feel free to ask all the questions you want. This thread has kinda turned into a "streetrod journal" for Dave (Ireland's Child) & I on separate sides of the country but we're both happy to have somebody chiming in....

Later,
Randy

[mark craig]

Thanks Randy that helps I am replacing the floor board directly under the firewall and transmition tunnell the rest of floor is good. noticed in a parts book you can buy rivets just like henry used in orignal firewall thought maybe using those and stich wels rest like orignal any thoughts on that or do like you did weld solid. mark

[randyr]

Thanks Randy that helps I am replacing the floor board directly under the firewall and transmition tunnell the rest of floor is good. noticed in a parts book you can buy rivets just like henry used in orignal firewall thought maybe using those and stich wels rest like orignal any thoughts on that or do like you did weld solid. mark

I don't really know how they originally did the 34 but the 37 firewall was spot welded every inch or two. To remove it the instructions said to drill thru the spot welds with a 5/16" bit, cut thru all the body sealer and take it out. Mine had some extra cutting to do because of some previous mods made to the orignal firewall. The new one is installed the same way using self-tapping screws in every other hole to hole things in place while welding the "un-screwed" holes....check out this installation on Direct Sheetmetals website... http://directsheetmetal.com/pages/typeinstall.html

They don't recommend welding solid because of the potential warping of the metal.

Where are you getting your firewall & front floorboard?