37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

[IC2]

Randy,
It is really looking good - they always look the worst "in process" but the set up is really nice. I see nothing wrong with your metal working skills except that you lack a bunch of specialized skills - but then I don't have anything more then several large hammers, some pliers and a couple of iron blocks to use as anvils.

The doors are 'standard' '37 Ford doors. I happened to be talking with some folks last fall at NSRA Burlington and one of the guys happened to mention that his doors were like almost every other '37 he ever saw - they gapped. In this situation, he was talking about the lower portions hanging out about 1/4 inch or so. I wandered some more after that and lo and behold, every OEM '37 Ford had that problem - and there were a lot of them last fall year. And I forgot to mention it to you - oops - sorry. What it appears is that somewhere in the car's life, the door hinges were adjusted just opposite the "norm". Can you fix it? Sure. Cut notches on the inner panel and bend the door to shape, weld up the cuts then adjust the hinges(which is what I had to do with the right quarter of my car. Lots of work and maybe not worth the pain. The only thing I would do is adjust the hinges so that the gap is either equalized or on the bottom.

Weather Well, today we are having a hot spell - about 50* but then back to the teens and twenties tomorrow. I am finishing up a few odds and end on the chassis in my basement garage stall plus getting the windshield ready for installation. The gas tank will be installed this week along with the front and side splash shields and running board along with their brackets.

Later

[IC2]

Randy,
I got my first painted component on the chassis today. Whoopee More later or tomorrow The "spreader bar" is a temporary piece with the permanent SS version going on with the body

[randyr]

Hey Dave,

I pretty much finished welding in the new latch mounts & rebuilding the door pillar on the drivers side today. It doesn't look too bad. Of course, a little bondo will smooth it out really nice. Forgot to take my camera to the garage today but will post a couple of pics soon. I think the other side will be much easier because of what I've learned on the drivers side, plus it looks like my dad did a smoother job on the passengers side. I guess he "learned" on the drivers side too....LOL!

As I work on the car I ponder the things I've done and things I consider doing differently....on the car! I'm not doing life assessment here....LOL! Anyway, I'm not sure I like my brake pedal set up. I was looking at some of the under dash mount master cylinders with remote fill, etc. That would eliminate the hole in the floor and free up exhaust clearance but could create problems finding room for the power booster, etc with my AC. If I went with manual brakes, the setup wouldn't be a problem. Any thoughts on manual brakes for this car? Actually, the brakes on it have only been manual before and they worked fine......perhaps I answered my own question.....LOL...but feel free to throw in thoughts.
It's very much in the "thinking" stage right now. I haven't committed to changing anything.

Any new progress for you? Are you staying warm?

Later,
Randy

[IC2]

It's amazing what you can learn the first time through - and of course you'll have an easire job on the other side .

I, personally am not a big fan of the under dash braking system. It adds complication to a fun project and has the potential of dumping some quantity of brake fluid to your new upholstery while filling the master cylinder or if a fitting has an occasional drip. For a high level show car - fine, a driver???? But - it's my opinion and I did consider that system and decided not to for those reasons.

While I don't have the same number of X and cross members on my '31 as you have on your '37, I found that the exhaust system wasn't particularly difficult to maneuver around the power booster. In your area and with the traffic density, I'd keep the power brakes - for the added safety factor.

As far as my car, I got the frame anti-squeak welting on yesterday - what a PITA !! I used 2 sided carpet tape to keep it in place. I also had to punch some more holes - and of course couldn't find my marking tool and had to make up another. The splash shields will be installed in a day or so - I need to undercoat them

[randyr]

It's amazing what you can learn the first time through - and of course you'll have an easire job on the other side .

I, personally am not a big fan of the under dash braking system. It adds complication to a fun project and has the potential of dumping some quantity of brake fluid to your new upholstery while filling the master cylinder or if a fitting has an occasional drip. For a high level show car - fine, a driver???? But - it's my opinion and I did consider that system and decided not to for those reasons.

While I don't have the same number of X and cross members on my '31 as you have on your '37, I found that the exhaust system wasn't particularly difficult to maneuver around the power booster. In your area and with the traffic density, I'd keep the power brakes - for the added safety factor.

As far as my car, I got the frame anti-squeak welting on yesterday - what a PITA !! I used 2 sided carpet tape to keep it in place. I also had to punch some more holes - and of course couldn't find my marking tool and had to make up another. The splash shields will be installed in a day or so - I need to undercoat them

Wise words, Dave. I woke up this morning thinking some of the same things about the under dash braking. Funny how "sleeping on it" can affect things....I think my biggest frustration with my under the floor set up is the pedal. With all the cutting & bending to accomodate the recessed firewall, steering column and leaving room for the gas pedal, I think I cut the pedal about 1" short. I've been hesitant to add a inch because I finally got it tracking good thru the hole in the floor and don't want to screw that up yet again.....it's not bad where it is but maybe I'll take another stab at it.....in the end, $$$ will strongly influence my decision and right now, I'm keeping what I have....LOL!

Chasing tools is a big frustration of mine too. Even working in such a small space, it's amazing how often I can't find the tool I need.

What kind of undercoating are you using? How are you applying it? When my dad & I were building my car the first time, we somehow aquired like a 10 gal drum of this black heavy tar like substance used for automotive undercoat. We slathered that stuff on everything! Really messy stuff but it seemed to work well after all these years.

[IC2]

Ain't it amazin' how a good 'sleep on it' helps solve lots of problems in life. I've built most of the non-standard pieces on my car that way - and have even found lost tools with a brain burp at 2:00AM (but not the marking tool)

So far for any undercoating, it has been the rattle cans of Dupli-Color for the rear floorboards that I've done so far and rattle cans of Dupli-Color truck bed liner for the back of the running boards and splash shields. I think the bed liner stuff may be better then the standard undercoating. You can't wash it off your hands while the undercoat is solvent washable. 3M makes some good stuff too but very expensive - tho the Dupli-color was ~$8/can.

Slow car day today - my wife has been on my case to make a new and "fancy" bird feeder, so I picked up some inexpensive cedar and am working on that making clouds of sawdust to cover everything

[randyr]

Hey Dave,

Now I'm shaving the passenger side. As I stated early, it's a little easier & cleaner with the experience from the other side. Here's pics of where I started and where I've ended up so far.....

[randyr]

Ok, so here's my new dilemna.....as you can see from the pic below, my door doesn't line up with the body lines. I want to correct that before I mount the door pillar side of the latch so the door has to be removed. What's the best way to get the door hinge screws loose? Of course, they are the original slotted screws and the doors have never been off the car as far as I know. If I have to drilll the screws out, wouldn't it make sense to replace them with a phillips head or allen wrench head screw?

[Dave Severson]

Might want to try one of the hammer on it type impact drivers to get them loose, after a thorough soaking with PB Blaster or the equivalent... I usually have to end up drilling them out, retap and use some quality phillips head screws... I like to use stainless hardware on the doors, hood, and decklid but if you go that route, remember to always use anti-sieze compound when installing stainless hardware.....

[IC2]

Randy,
Now I understand why you wanted to change the handles. The GM handles must have looked clunky in today's world.

I at least partially agree with Dave S (Again!). I used this tool, below, when I did my '31 Slant Windshield Fordor. It worked great on the 70 plus year old screws though you will work up a sweat and give the 2# hammer a work out. And as far as using SS screws there, I probably wouldn't. The OEMs are most likely 5/16-24 modified flathead screws, and are extremely hard material, probably at least equivalent to Gr5 or better. SS, unless you can find some after market with the modified(smaller diameter) heads, will not be fully recessed. Also, most SS screws are no better then Gr 2 material, with NF threads not really capable of holding well

[34_40]

Might want to try one of the hammer on it type impact drivers to get them loose, after a thorough soaking with PB Blaster or the equivalent... I usually have to end up drilling them out, retap and use some quality phillips head screws... I like to use stainless hardware on the doors, hood, and decklid but if you go that route, remember to always use anti-sieze compound when installing stainless hardware.....

Randy, I agree with both Dave & IC2. Use a impact screwdriver for a real good shot at getting those screws loose. I would make sure to NOT use a 18-8 stainless found at most hardware stores. If you do go stainless, locate 316 hardware for any structural components. And always use anti-sieze with stainless to prevent galling. I spent some 9 hours cutting / welding / grinding and finally finished the H-pipe and both exhaust pipes, installed the mufflers and testran, it sounds great! I'm on cloud 9... Still need to finish the tailpipes. Not sure if I will go out the back or just in front of the back tires. My arms are killin' me so we'll wait awhile so I can recuperate! LOL..

Mike

[IC2]

Randy, I agree with both Dave & IC2. Use a impact screwdriver for a real good shot at getting those screws loose. I would make sure to NOT use a 18-8 stainless found at most hardware stores. If you do go stainless, locate 316 hardware for any structural components. And always use anti-sieze with stainless to prevent galling. I spent some 9 hours cutting / welding / grinding and finally finished the H-pipe and both exhaust pipes, installed the mufflers and testran, it sounds great! I'm on cloud 9... Still need to finish the tailpipes. Not sure if I will go out the back or just in front of the back tires. My arms are killin' me so we'll wait awhile so I can recuperate! LOL..

Mike

Mike,
Whoopee - it runs. Glad to hear that at least one of us is at that point . With the exception of the frame mods for the rear mounted gas tank, the exhaust system was probably the biggest mechanical item time grabber for me. Then there was( IS! ) the body work

Take a day for R&R then back to work

If you exhaust out in front of the tires, you will tend to cloud up aluminum and corrode chrome wheels with combustion by products (water, acid, H2S, just to name some of the exhaust nasties)

Oh yeah, Randy, you will probably need at least 4 bits to do the doors - they're tough but will distort or tear apart.

[randyr]

Thanks for the heads up about the extra bits, Dave. In doing a search for the replacement screws, I've found a few reproduction houses that carry them, some stainless & some regular. I've sent emails asking about the strength of the stainless screws but no response yet. I really don't care which they are as long as they are strong and paint will stick to them. I hope to never remove them again once the doors are adjusted. While I'm at it is there any need to replace the hinge pins? Mine seem to be tight and in good working order.

I'm quite a ways away for exhaust pipes yet but I'm listening to you guys and formulating ideas along the way. I had originally thought I would just take it to a muffler shop and have it done but the more I read, the more I'm inspired to tackle it myself. Does the aluminized steel use the same welding gas (CO2/argon) that I have or something different?

Anyway, Dave I'm anxious to see that body on your frame. Will that be happening soon or are you still building a bird house?? LOL!

Later guys.
Randy

[IC2]

Thanks for the heads up about the extra bits, Dave. In doing a search for the replacement screws, I've found a few reproduction houses that carry them, some stainless & some regular. I've sent emails asking about the strength of the stainless screws but no response yet. I really don't care which they are as long as they are strong and paint will stick to them. I hope to never remove them again once the doors are adjusted. While I'm at it is there any need to replace the hinge pins? Mine seem to be tight and in good working order.

I'm quite a ways away for exhaust pipes yet but I'm listening to you guys and formulating ideas along the way. I had originally thought I would just take it to a muffler shop and have it done but the more I read, the more I'm inspired to tackle it myself. Does the aluminized steel use the same welding gas (CO2/argon) that I have or something different?

Anyway, Dave I'm anxious to see that body on your frame. Will that be happening soon or are you still building a bird house?? LOL!

Later guys.
Randy

Randy - up early today, eh!!!
You'll be lucky to get more then a D-u-h-h from most suppliers. IMO, the ferrous OEMs lasted 70 years, why SS if you are painting them. If I had the hinges off I would replace the pins regardless (assuming you can find them)

I used the standard auto supply store aluminized steel and it welded nicely with my standard CO2/Argon gas. When you cut pipe off, you end up with a clean end with no aluminum. I dressed the burrs and made a weld prep with a file because I used a sawzall instead of a pipe cutter.

Your anxious to see the body on the frame - but I'm beyond that. A foot of slop in my backyard has to disappear before I can drag the chassis up the hill to the garage. Don't want to get it stuck in a "raw" state in my lawn.

Done with the @#$% birdhouses

[randyr]

Randy - up early today, eh!!!
You'll be lucky to get more then a D-u-h-h from most suppliers. IMO, the ferrous OEMs lasted 70 years, why SS if you are painting them. If I had the hinges off I would replace the pins regardless (assuming you can find them)

I asked them about the strength of the SS screws because one of the suppliers seems to only have SS ones. They also have hinge pins, SS & regular.
Midwest Early Ford

Here's another supplier with both hinge screws & pins...
Dick Spadaro Early Ford Reproductions: Catalog-Page 60

You're right, there's no need for stainless because I just want to get the doors to fit the best possible, paint them and forget about them. I see no reason to draw attention to a shiny stainless hinge screw! LOL!

May your back yard dry up quickly and I'm sure the birds are thrilled with their new home!

Oh, btw, I'm up that early pretty much every day. It's a rarity that I post anything that early though.....