37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

[Irelands child]

My master cylinder is currently on the firewall (tons of

Randy - you should really consider putting the MC under the floor. The main advantage of that is keeping the paint on the firewall intact. Brake fluid eats paint - and don't even consider silicone brake fluid - that adds to a street driven cars problems. (I already hear the detractors gnashing their teeth, but experience has given me a real hate for the stuff)

The disadvantages of a MC below the floor are that you will need to plumb in a pair of residual pressure valves and it is a PITA to check and fill.

[randyr]

Randy - you should really consider putting the MC under the floor. The main advantage of that is keeping the paint on the firewall intact. Brake fluid eats paint - and don't even consider silicone brake fluid - that adds to a street driven cars problems. (I already hear the detractors gnashing their teeth, but experience has given me a real hate for the stuff)

The disadvantages of a MC below the floor are that you will need to plumb in a pair of residual pressure valves and it is a PITA to check and fill.

My dad & I built this car back in the 80's. For whatever reason, we opted to put the MC on the firewall back then. It works fine but you're right, not only does the brake fluid eat up the paint, but it just doesn't look so hot either. The firewall has been cut many ways and needs to be replaced. I'm looking at the ones from Direct Sheetmetal, Bitchin & Bob Drake reproductions, all with the 3"recess for small block engines. Obviously, before I can install that, I must put the MC back under the floor, which means buying the pedal/MC/booster kit from one of the ebay suppliers or other sources. It can't all happen at once because the well is running dry with this engine build, but it's all on the "list".......damn, maybe I should have stuck to building model cars instead of real ones! LOL! I love it though.

[randyr]

Oh, are you from Ireland or what's the origin of your user name?

Just curious as I have friends in Dublin. I want to go visit them someday....

[Irelands child]

Oh, are you from Ireland or what's the origin of your user name?

Just curious as I have friends in Dublin. I want to go visit them someday....

Not from Ireland but am mostly Irish and travel there fairly regularly. I had a group of field construction engineers from there working for me plus I worked there for a short time installing a power plant in the late '80's. Great place to go - and of course to have a Guinness or several. Dublin's a great place as is the rest of the country - even the North. And they still (mostly) like us, as long as you aren't an "ugly American" and try to fit in with the local folks. My wife "hung" my name on me.

[Irelands child]

[QUOTE=randyr]look so hot either. The firewall has been cut many ways and needs to be replaced. I'm looking at the ones from Direct Sheetmetal, Bitchin & Bob Drake reproductions, all with the 3"recess for small block engines. QUOTE]

I have used and like the Bitchin' and Direct Sheetmetal products. And suggest you get the big block firewall. It gives you a bit more room to work without crowding everything down around the engine. Mine is a Brookville and it came with a 3" recess, regardless of the fact I ordered a 5". I needed the extra 2 inches because TCI set my engine mounts back too far and mods had to be made to the firewall to fit. But that's another (long) story.

[MikeB]

Irelands child
"and don't even consider silicone brake fluid - that adds to a street driven cars problems. (I already hear the detractors gnashing their teeth, but experience has given me a real hate for the stuff)"

Why not silicone, what was your experience. I've read good and bad and was planning on using silicone brake fluid in my '56 F100, you've put doubts in my head.

Thanks and sorry 'bout the hijack.

[randyr]

[QUOTE=Irelands child]

look so hot either. The firewall has been cut many ways and needs to be replaced. I'm looking at the ones from Direct Sheetmetal, Bitchin & Bob Drake reproductions, all with the 3"recess for small block engines. QUOTE]

I have used and like the Bitchin' and Direct Sheetmetal products. And suggest you get the big block firewall. It gives you a bit more room to work without crowding everything down around the engine. Mine is a Brookville and it came with a 3" recess, regardless of the fact I ordered a 5". I needed the extra 2 inches because TCI set my engine mounts back too far and mods had to be made to the firewall to fit. But that's another (long) story.

hmmmm - I wasn't sure I wanted to give up the extra 2" of legroom. My original firewall was notched enough to clear the valve covers and I need to remeasure to be sure but I think the notch is 3" or less. It seems to be adequate but I'll give the 5" some thought.......do you know who supplies Bob Drake reproductions with their firewalls? They're about $25-40 cheaper than the other two but they don't state what guage steel they're using in the ad. That would be a good question to ask. I've ordered other parts from them that seem to work well.

Direct Sheetmetal is only a couple of hours from me. I could pick it up and save the shipping but I have to pay sales tax since it's in state. Maybe I should order from an out of state supplier.....not that I'm trying to cheat Arnold out of any tax revenue or anything.....LOL!

[Irelands child]

Irelands child
"and don't even consider silicone brake fluid - that adds to a street driven cars problems. (I already hear the detractors gnashing their teeth, but experience has given me a real hate for the stuff)"

Why not silicone, what was your experience. I've read good and bad and was planning on using silicone brake fluid in my '56 F100, you've put doubts in my head.

Thanks and sorry 'bout the hijack.

Mike,
Not a problem with the hijack - as you can guess I kinda anticipated some response.

First of all, there are two positives:
1 - None to minimal paint damage
2 - It is nowhere near as hygoscopic as the glycol based DOT2, 3 and 4 conventional brake fluid

The negatives:
1 - Your entire brake system must be rebuilt to ensure that there is absolutely NO conventional brake fluid. That means all new seals, rebuilding the MC and WCs with pieces that have never seen brake fluid. Your lines, MC and WCs need to be totally flushed with alcohol. Brake fluid combined with silicone form a compound that attacks the seals, and eventual failure somewhere.
2 - It is a fluid that is bit compressible. That means you will never have as solid a brake pedal which is a comfort factor and could be a safety factor with that little bit more pedal throw in case of an emergency stop.
3 - A lot more expensive and not easily obtainable in case of an on-road need on a Sunday in East Overshoe, Wyoming.

With that being said, there may be others that will say that I am wrong and they have used silicone for years without a problem. But it is a product that was designed for racing and is best left there. A good DOT 3 /4 is still the best choice for most, including me. I have been using a conventional racing brake fluid, called Super Blue Racing that has boiling points 200+ degrees above DOT4 which has worked out well, but also is expensive. It can be mixed with Auto Zone fluid in an on road need. On a street rod/machine that is not a daily driver, maintenance is the key. Flush the system every year or two, and you'll never have a problem.

[Irelands child]

[QUOTE=randyr]

hmmmm - I wasn't sure I wanted to give up the extra 2" of legroom. My original firewall was notched enough to clear the valve covers and I need to remeasure to be sure but I think the notch is 3" or less. It seems to be adequate but I'll give the 5" some thought.......do you know who supplies Bob Drake reproductions with their firewalls? They're about $25-40 cheaper than the other two but they don't state what guage steel they're using in the ad. That would be a good question to ask. I've ordered other parts from them that seem to work well.

Direct Sheetmetal is only a couple of hours from me. I could pick it up and save the shipping but I have to pay sales tax since it's in state. Maybe I should order from an out of state supplier.....not that I'm trying to cheat Arnold out of any tax revenue or anything.....LOL!

A lot of Bob Drake items are made by him as well as imported from the Far East. My guess is that he has a local jobber tin shop making the firewalls for hime

If DSM is as close to you as 2 hours, at least you can go bitch at them if you have a problem. I had a problem with a trans tunnel, called them and talked to the owner and we were able to straighten it out.

You can't always go for the cheapest - occasionally the manufacturer's proximity is worth a few more bucks. I could have ordered my TCI chassis cheaper elsewhere but Dick Spadaro Early Ford Reproductions in Altamont, NY was only 6 miles from work (and he was also a neighbor at one time). I ended up paying 8% NY sales taxes - but he was able to "help" on other items.

I have a chance at the end of the month to help the Governator's tax plan. Whoopee

[MikeB]

Dave,

Thanks for the silicone fluid info. Originally I was planing to use silicone because it doesn't damage the paint, I still may but I figure the more info one has, the better the final decision. My brake system is new and never has had fluid in it so that shouldn't be a problem. To convert from silicone to conventional I assume the system must be flushed.

Thanks again.

[Irelands child]

Dave,

Thanks for the silicone fluid info. Originally I was planing to use silicone because it doesn't damage the paint, I still may but I figure the more info one has, the better the final decision. My brake system is new and never has had fluid in it so that shouldn't be a problem. To convert from silicone to conventional I assume the system must be flushed.

Thanks again.

Mike,
Just a few words of advice - assuming that you have new wheel cylinders or calipers and a new master cylinder - they were assembled at some supplier using brake fluid or a compatible material as a lubricant and protectant. It is not compatible with silicone. Every freakin' rubber piece - seals, cups, valves - anything with rubber must be replaced with new and DRY pieces before you install silicone brake fluid. Use the silicone fluid then for your assembly lubricant. The MC and WC should then be bench cleaned with alcohol. Been there,........ and it is a PITA. But with that said, if that is the way you decide to go, do it - the stuff does work, but IMHO, not worth the additional bucks and effort. If you decide to change back to conventional fluid, you start all over again with the system clean up.

[MikeB]

Dave,

That settles it, I'll go conventional... I'll just have to be extra careful so not damage my way too expensive paint job.

Thanks

[Irelands child]

Mike,
Did you leave the MC on the firewall or tuck it down on the frame? If it is still on the firewall, you can fill it with a turkey baster instead of directly out of the can. I bought a remote fill for mine that I probably wont use because of possible splatter. It will be mounted with the fill hose disappearing in the general direction of the MC and tie wrapped off. I do understand about a too expensive a paint job. Mine is not painted yet (April)and I already have $1000+ in materials plus a new $500 Iwata spray gun.

[MikeB]

Dave,
I put the MC on the firewall for a couple of reasons.
1 - Had a Chevelle front clip put on and boxed the frame.
2 - Wanted a hanging pedal to better seal the floor.
3 - Wanted a power booster for the Wilwood calipers on the Jag rear and yet to be determined front calipers. I want Wilwood calipers there too but have not put out the $$ yet.

Attached is a picture of the booster without the MC.

[Irelands child]

Dave,
I put the MC on the firewall for a couple of reasons.
1 - Had a Chevelle front clip put on and boxed the frame.
2 - Wanted a hanging pedal to better seal the floor.
3 - Wanted a power booster for the Wilwood calipers on the Jag rear and yet to be determined front calipers. I want Wilwood calipers there too but have not put out the $$ yet.

Attached is a picture of the booster without the MC.

Looks great - and a Ford in a Ford !! Way ta go

Why not consider Wilwoods all the way around, including a nice Wilwood aluminum MC. With the booster "hung" out there, you should not have a problem with drool out of the back of the MC.

I have 4 wheel Wilwoods on mine - polished in the front and black in the back (which I actually prefer), but with a 'vette MC.