37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

[Irelands child]

Interesting thread to anyone who has ever put a Ford in a Ford street rod. I am new to this site and hope you don't mind an unrelated question. I recently sold my 32 5 window (302/C4) and am in the market for my next project. I am thinking real hard about a Brookville 30/31 A on their 32 chassis with a 302 or 351/AOD combination. Brookville says that I do not need a recessed firewall with this combination but I would need to use the Motorsport short water pump. My 5 window was a Downs body and chassis combination and there were some clearance issues on the front of the engine and the fan shroud. Since you have experience with Brookville products, do you think a 302/AOD would fit without a recessed firewall (it will be on a 32 chassis)? I have had good luck with the Cooling Components electric fan and shroud combination (it gets hot down here) and I would like to use that on this car. Thanks.

Don,
There is one thing about Brookville - that sometimes they do NOT know their own product. Even with a '32 chassis, the '30-'31 firewall will need to be recessed. The '32 firewall is to a certain extent, already recessed about an inch plus for all intents and purposes, flat. The '30-'31 firewall intrudes into the engine compartment ~3". Take a look at the attached and even with the added couple of inches or so of chassis does NOT make for a fit. If I were to do it again, I would purchase my Brookville with no firewall or a stock type if they insisted I have one, then install a Bitchin' or Direct if they make one. Both are neater looking then the OEM style. I am using a CCS fan with a '32 Walker radiator with a Brookville '32 grille shell. Do a search in CHR on my name to see some of my other Brookville complaints as well as here: http://hotrodders.com/cgibin/rls/mag...1&icon-status=
If Brent deletes this competitors link, PM me and I'll send it to you.

Good luck if you go this way

[Deuce Don]

Thanks Dave, that helps a lot. I have built two Downs 32s, a roadster and a 5 window, and have been pleased with them. I did purchase both cars with recessed firewalls and the only issue I have had was that the motor mounts were too far forward on the 5 window and that was corrected with the short waterpump. What I should have done was to move the motor mounts back to where they should have been. Live and learn. Thanks again.

Don

[randyr]

Hi Randy,
Made it back safely from Beautiful Burbank - but am still about an hour off kilter as far as time.

The engine looks nice and clean - what rockers are you using? They don't look like my Crane Energizers. Time for a paint job on it - and that's always a bundle of fun.

The firewall sure looks a lot better than that piece of Swiss cheese you had originally. Fits up real nicely. Did you get the trans tunnel as well?

Gotta finish getting my taxes ready today for my accountant - so will be basically off-line for most of today.

Welcome back Dave. Hope you had a good trip.

My rockers are Scorpion 1.72 rollers. They came highly recommended by the guy who designed my cam. I don't have all the specs handy at the moment but can fill you in later on that...

They painted my engine the new Ford Gray. It doesn't photograph as well as it looks in person. I kinda wanted to go with a pewter/stainless steel look on the cast iron parts and add subtle bling with polished alum valve covers, coated headers etc. The plug wires and dist. cap are red.

I got the entire floorboard to go with the new firewall. Once I started cutting, it just seemed to make sense...lol....I'm also moving the master cylinder back under the floor and putting the shifter on the floor instead of column. On my old setup the column shifter linkage cleared the exhaust manifold by about 1/4 inch. The floor shifter makes sense to clean up the congestion in that whole area.

I decided to buy a little Lincoln welder. It should be here tomorrow. It's a wire feed mig with the hoses & guages to add the gas. I'm excited to get it so I can do this stuff myself rather than trying to schedule time and money to get someone else to do it.

Anyway, glad you're back online. Good luck with your taxes. I still have to do mine too.....Egad!

Later,
Randy

[Irelands child]

Randy,
I like that engine color - it looks like gray cast iron.

I've not heard of Scorpion rockers but they appear to be fairly hefty. My Cranes are the 1.7 version - which will, hopefully, give me the low end with the mild SVT -E303 cam and a bit of economy. At least our gas here isn't over $3/gallon yet like yours is now. I saw for self serve as low as $3.11 in Burbank to $3.85 in Beverly Hills for 87 octane (phew).

From what you are saying, you have the bases covered with new floorboards, master cylinder relocation and floor shifter. You are right that it will clean up the area - a lot. It's amazing that when you start on an update how many other areas get done as well. There is just so much more "stuff" available now then when the car was originally built plus there may be some more discretionary cash as well.

With your replacement master cylinder - are you using one of the new style 'vette designs with the double sided outlets? They came out a couple of years ago, right after I did mine, and make the plumbing job much neater, as you don't have to loop the tubing as much to get back to the frame.

I'm using a 16" Lokar floor shifter as the brackets seem to be much more rigid then the Gennie. The Lokar e-brake handle also bolts to the floor shifter bracket - another item to consider.

Not sure which 110V Lincoln welder you are getting, but I have run the H@## out of mine and am happy with it - but have to know its limitations. A 2# roll of wire and a 40 cu ft gas bottle run about the same length of time. Just make sure you shut the gas off even if you aren't welding for 15-30 minutes. The internal (handle) valve seems to always leak a bit. You will need a decent auto darkening hood, a pair of Mig pliers, a pair of heavy welders gloves and a heavy cotton long sleeve shirt (no poly - if it were to catch fire, it will melt into your skin, causing 3rd degree burns). Then, unless you already know how to weld, practice, lots, or take a short course.

I've gotten all the tax paperwork together and off tomorrow @9:00 to the tax man. Nothing unusual this year so it should be straight forward and maybe I wont owe (too much). Then back to the car if the weather would turn - rain and cold (and some snow) predicted for the next few days again. Regardless, I still have some handle and latch holes to weld up (with my Lincoln welder) on my hood sides and can do that in the basement. Good for a few hours.

[Irelands child]

Thanks Dave, that helps a lot. I have built two Downs 32s, a roadster and a 5 window, and have been pleased with them. I did purchase both cars with recessed firewalls and the only issue I have had was that the motor mounts were too far forward on the 5 window and that was corrected with the short waterpump. What I should have done was to move the motor mounts back to where they should have been. Live and learn. Thanks again.

Don

I had a bit of the same problem with my TCI chassis - but they were an inch plus too far back. The guy that I bought it from (Dick Spadaro) now advises customers to order a chassis with the mounts not welded in place - which would have saved me a lot of added work.

[Deuce Don]

Good point! I think I will try that next time.

[randyr]

Randy,
I like that engine color - it looks like gray cast iron.




With your replacement master cylinder - are you using one of the new style 'vette designs with the double sided outlets? They came out a couple of years ago, right after I did mine, and make the plumbing job much neater, as you don't have to loop the tubing as much to get back to the frame.

I'm using a 16" Lokar floor shifter as the brackets seem to be much more rigid then the Gennie. The Lokar e-brake handle also bolts to the floor shifter bracket - another item to consider.

Not sure which 110V Lincoln welder you are getting, but I have run the H@## out of mine and am happy with it - but have to know its limitations. A 2# roll of wire and a 40 cu ft gas bottle run about the same length of time. Just make sure you shut the gas off even if you aren't welding for 15-30 minutes. The internal (handle) valve seems to always leak a bit. You will need a decent auto darkening hood, a pair of Mig pliers, a pair of heavy welders gloves and a heavy cotton long sleeve shirt (no poly - if it were to catch fire, it will melt into your skin, causing 3rd degree burns). Then, unless you already know how to weld, practice, lots, or take a short course.

Yeah, Dave, the master cylinder does have double sided outlets. Shouldn't be that big a deal. I am going to have to cut off the brake pedal they sent since I got the big block firewall. I think I'll take that to a welding shop though. I don't want to risk my brakes & life on my being a novice welder...lol...

I am going with a Lokar shifter. I'll consider the E-brake handle as well.

The welder I'm getting is the Lincoln HD 3200 Weldpak which is the SP-135T or something like that, with all the gauges, hoses, gun, etc....I actually bought it new on Ebay for $352 plus $60s/h. The same package sells at home depot for $459 plus tax. I think I ended up saving close to $100 that way....It's supposed to be here tomorrow. I'm excited to check it out.

Still need to get my taxes finished.....argh!!!

Later,
Randy

[Irelands child]

a novice welder...lol...

I am going with a Lokar shifter. I'll consider the E-brake handle as well.

The welder I'm getting is the Lincoln HD 3200 Weldpak which is the SP-135T or something like that, with all the gauges, hoses, gun, etc....
Still need to get my taxes finished.....argh!!!

Later,
Randy

Randy,
A couple of pictures of the shifter with the e-brake handle might help make up your mind -

You will be happy with that welder - it is one size larger then mine and the one I often wish that I had bought.

Taxes are due in less then 2 weeks - 17 April. Gulp

[randyr]

Randy,
A couple of pictures of the shifter with the e-brake handle might help make up your mind -

You will be happy with that welder - it is one size larger then mine and the one I often wish that I had bought.

Taxes are due in less then 2 weeks - 17 April. Gulp

Great pics, as usual, Dave! My only reservation about that E-brake is taking up that much more floor space. Of course the only other option is a pedal or hand lever under the dash where the original was. That gets pretty congested over there with my hood release & electric wiper motor being in close proximity, not to mention the fuse block, etc. Maybe I can just carry a brick in the car and chalk the wheels when I stop......LOL! Hell, if I'm going that far, maybe I should just leave the floorboards out and stop it Flintstone style......ouch! Don't think my feet are up to that! LOL....

It appears that I may be getting screwed on my rear disc brake conversion. I bid on a used kit on ebay that was the same style as the one offered by Ford Motorsport with the E-brake housed inside the back of the rotor with little brake shoes. I didn't win the auction but the seller contacted me after saying he had another one he could sell me for my bid price of $126. For $250 total, he would upgrade it with new rotors, pads, ebrake shoes plus include backing plates, hoses, fittings, etc. There was $40s/h on top of that. I agreed and paid him thru paypal. That was Feb 14. After a series of empty promises and excuses, I still have no parts and he has my money. I've contacted ebay & paypal but nothing has been resolved yet,.....so beware of bills90lxcoupe@aol.com or forgottenfoxford@aol.com or a guy named Darrell Payne from around Kansas City. He seemed like a nice honest guy with a 100% satisfaction rating on Ebay but now he's no longer a registered user for some reason.......I smell a rat!

[Irelands child]

Great pics, as usual, Dave! My only reservation about that E-brake is taking up that much more floor space.

He seemed like a nice honest guy with a 100% satisfaction rating on Ebay but now he's no longer a registered user for some reason.......I smell a rat!

Randy,
Lokar has an under dash version that, in my opinion, takes a bit too much space or another floorboard mounted version which bolts directly to the floor. This one can be mounted crosswise and can use a much cheaper cable from your local parts store. Ford also has a very nice one as well that your local junkyard might have. The illustrious PINTO has a very simple lever, it looks and works very much like the Lokar and one year is even chrome (I had one in an earlier car). I had a couple of extras until last year, but I bought the both for $5 and sold them at NSRA/York, PA.

Did your welder arrive yet? Gotta start making sparks !! Be careful - you can get a major sunburn on exposed skin and have eye problems without protection - regardless of what you see the idiots do on the car build shows.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with Ebay - so far I have not been hurt too badly there. There are some real shady characters selling stuff there and it looks like car parts sellers have the biggest theives. If you paid via PayPal, you should be protected, but you have to get very insistant with them and threaten litigation after 2 or 3 email exchanges if they don't seem to want to do anything. It looks like you are back to square one on rear discs - might start looking at Wilwood's. What rear end do you have - some of the Wilwoods need some special pieces. My '57 needed different spacers - but these were from McMaster-Carr at about a buck apiece rather then the $8-9ea that the mfr. wanted.

The IRS wants your money??? By midnight, April 17 !!

I just picked up some 2" angle iron today so I can make a frame to support the body to clean and paint the underside. I forgot to epoxy the floorboards when I installed them - now they are a nice rusty red Dumb.

Later

[randyr]

Randy,
Lokar has an under dash version that, in my opinion, takes a bit too much space or another floorboard mounted version which bolts directly to the floor. This one can be mounted crosswise and can use a much cheaper cable from your local parts store. Ford also has a very nice one as well that your local junkyard might have. The illustrious PINTO has a very simple lever, it looks and works very much like the Lokar and one year is even chrome (I had one in an earlier car). I had a couple of extras until last year, but I bought the both for $5 and sold them at NSRA/York, PA.

Did your welder arrive yet? Gotta start making sparks !! Be careful - you can get a major sunburn on exposed skin and have eye problems without protection - regardless of what you see the idiots do on the car build shows.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with Ebay - so far I have not been hurt too badly there. There are some real shady characters selling stuff there and it looks like car parts sellers have the biggest theives. If you paid via PayPal, you should be protected, but you have to get very insistant with them and threaten litigation after 2 or 3 email exchanges if they don't seem to want to do anything. It looks like you are back to square one on rear discs - might start looking at Wilwood's. What rear end do you have - some of the Wilwoods need some special pieces. My '57 needed different spacers - but these were from McMaster-Carr at about a buck apiece rather then the $8-9ea that the mfr. wanted.

The IRS wants your money??? By midnight, April 17 !!

I just picked up some 2" angle iron today so I can make a frame to support the body to clean and paint the underside. I forgot to epoxy the floorboards when I installed them - now they are a nice rusty red Dumb.

Later

Yeah, I thought I might take a tour thru Pick A Part before committing to the Lokar Ebrake.

My rear end is a 9" from a 58 Ford. There's another guy selling a kit on ebay that uses Cadillac calipers with a built in ebrake. It looks pretty good and the guy is really thorough on his website. He even tells you exactly what parts he's using if you want to track them down yourself. His kit of all new stuff runs for $499. I can get it running first though and worry about the rear brakes later. Maybe by then my flakey seller will have a "come to Jesus" experience and make good on his promise.

My welder arrived this morning. It even has a little cart in the box to roll it around on....with an extra area to hold a gas bottle (not included). There is a DVD of how to's also.
Woohoo! I'm curious to crank it up but I'm going to resist and get my pan and stuff bolted on the engine today.

[Irelands child]

Yeah, I thought I might take a tour thru Pick A Part before committing to the Lokar Ebrake.

My rear end is a 9" from a 58 Ford. There's another guy selling a kit on ebay that uses Cadillac calipers with a built in ebrake. It looks pretty good and the guy is really thorough on his website. He even tells you exactly what parts he's using if you want to track them down yourself. His kit of all new stuff runs for $499. I can get it running first though and worry about the rear brakes later. Maybe by then my flakey seller will have a "come to Jesus" experience and make good on his promise.

My welder arrived this morning. It even has a little cart in the box to roll it around on....with an extra area to hold a gas bottle (not included). There is a DVD of how to's also.
Woohoo! I'm curious to crank it up but I'm going to resist and get my pan and stuff bolted on the engine today.

Randy,
The '58 9" is identical to my '57 except for the filler plug location. Most GM based after market kits do not work without some fairly significant mods to brackets which is why I suggested the Wilwood. This guy you are looking at may know the problems, but my guess is he is probably unaware. I called ECI about a GM type kit before I settled on the Wilwood - and the ECI comment was that they will not supply anything for a '57 - '63 as the axle protrusion from the housing is different then the preferred later versions. I spent a lot of time talking to the Wilwood tech support to make sure their stuff would work then ordered a drastically reduced price closeout special from Speedway. You might do a search on the GM calipers with the e-brake. I have been told the e-brakes are not too good - but that's only hearsay.

Sounds like you got a nice deal with your welder - I'm jealous. My cart is a wooden dolly affair I made up - it works, but.....The gas bottle can be rented or bought - I own mine, a 40 cfm, with a full bottle exchange at $25. Plug it in and start welding - it only takes 20 minutes to install the pan. Toys are meant to be played with NOW, not later

[thesals]

you can fit up 95-01 cobra rear discs on that car.. the kit is designed for an 8" rear but will fit a 9" as well.... its made by www.vintagevenom.com you'll then be able to run 11inch rotars in the rear with the internal drums for the E-brake, you will have to still setup a cable and everything, but its a nice way to go.... the only downside is you would have to run later model cobra rims

[randyr]

Randy,
The '58 9" is identical to my '57 except for the filler plug location. Most GM based after market kits do not work without some fairly significant mods to brackets which is why I suggested the Wilwood. This guy you are looking at may know the problems, but my guess is he is probably unaware. I called ECI about a GM type kit before I settled on the Wilwood - and the ECI comment was that they will not supply anything for a '57 - '63 as the axle protrusion from the housing is different then the preferred later versions. I spent a lot of time talking to the Wilwood tech support to make sure their stuff would work then ordered a drastically reduced price closeout special from Speedway. You might do a search on the GM calipers with the e-brake. I have been told the e-brakes are not too good - but that's only hearsay.

Sounds like you got a nice deal with your welder - I'm jealous. My cart is a wooden dolly affair I made up - it works, but.....The gas bottle can be rented or bought - I own mine, a 40 cfm, with a full bottle exchange at $25. Plug it in and start welding - it only takes 20 minutes to install the pan. Toys are meant to be played with NOW, not later

Here's the link to this guys disc brake kit.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rear-...spagenameZWDVW

It seems to me like with an automatic trans, the e-brake is not a critical as with a stick. I hardly ever use one with an auto trans but they are still necessary to have.

[randyr]

Hey Dave,
Where did you get all your braided steel lines (trans, fuel, etc)?

Randy