37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

[Irelands child]

Hey buddy, I got the shield if you got the p/ns! I discovered something interesting about my welder....it works much better with a stronger current....the garages in my little apartment complex are all wired together on the same circuit. When I plug the welder into that circuit I get crappy looking welds but Saturday I ran an extension cord from the outlet near where the meters are and what a difference! I was welding pretty good for a novice!! So I'm not afraid to tackle some exhaust brackets!

Funny how you think the mid 80's is too hot for you and I think the 50's & 60's are too cold for me.....LOL! Actually I think 82 is about perfect!

Make sure the extension cord is heavy enough(#12awg wire, min) - melted, they really do not look good nor work well`. They really like good 110 to 120 voltage.

How, 'bout a Walker 35460 insulator, you can use a 2000-2005 Chevy Impala as your car when the counter person asks ( he will have no idea how to source it in his computer w/o that info! ).

You will need non galvanized 3/8" or better yet, 7/16" for the round stock, plus your torch and a good vise to bend it cleanly. I also used 7/16 bolts, also unplated. Galvanizing fumes WILL make you sick, (turn your hair green and curl your toe nails )
With my wife out of town in England am going to look at a replacement truck tonight - an '05 F250 diesel so I can pull my camper better (poor excuse is better then none ). The '01 F150/ 5.4 suffers in the local mountains after an F350/460cid

EDIT: Not the truck I'll own. The previous owner must have sucked on a cigarette with the windows up for every one of its 15000 miles - it reeks (not just smell, REEK)

[randyr]

Hey Dave,

Was just looking at your interior pics again and had a couple of questions that are somewhat related.....since I'm putting the MC back under the floor and also putting a Lokar shifter on the floor, how big a hole do I need for the shifter? It's the trans-mount 23" Lokar and the instrustions do not address the size hole needed. I assume it will need to be big enough to remove the shifter part of the mechanism if I ever have to pull the tranny again. I guess it will also depend on what size shifter boot I get......any thoughts?

Also, did you make your console or buy it like that?

Where do you intend to put your gas pedal and brake pedal in relation to where your steering column goes through the floor?

Oh, and how ya been? We haven't chatted for a few days....LOL! I've been busy fitting my new floor. It's requiring a little trimming here and there and my brake pedal is going to need some modification to clear the big block firewall. Getting the last section of the trans cover to fit is going to be the great challenge after trimming the toe boards. I'm a little concerned about having enough room for the gas pedal next to the brake pedal. If I had really big feet, it would be even more worrysome I think....

Anyway, hope all is well on your end.

Randy

[Irelands child]

Hey Dave,

Was just looking at your interior pics again and had a couple of questions that are somewhat related.....since I'm putting the MC back under the floor and also putting a Lokar shifter on the floor, how big a hole do I need for the shifter? It's the trans-mount 23" Lokar and the instrustions do not address the size hole needed. I assume it will need to be big enough to remove the shifter part of the mechanism if I ever have to pull the tranny again. I guess it will also depend on what size shifter boot I get......any thoughts?

Also, did you make your console or buy it like that?

Where do you intend to put your gas pedal and brake pedal in relation to where your steering column goes through the floor?

Oh, and how ya been? We haven't chatted for a few days....LOL! I've been busy fitting my new floor. It's requiring a little trimming here and there and my brake pedal is going to need some modification to clear the big block firewall. Getting the last section of the trans cover to fit is going to be the great challenge after trimming the toe boards. I'm a little concerned about having enough room for the gas pedal next to the brake pedal. If I had really big feet, it would be even more worrysome I think....

Anyway, hope all is well on your end.

Randy

Sounds like you have been busy - as I have. With owning a pretty good size house and on a fairly large lot, plus a pickup truck that is getting a bit along in age, I'm busy - then there is my hobby car . Spring raking and cleaning the yard, a brake job on my truck (started making noises on the way home from looking at the one mentioned above) just to make life interesting. My wife got back from England and I had to at least clean the worst of my mess in the house up before she got here. So, all is fine here (or should I say normal) and hope you are doing well.

OK - with the floorboard hole hole for the shifter - if you know which bolt holes on the gold colored plate it will be finally mounted (may need the seats in) you have to start out with a center line of the shifter assembly and carefully measure it up. The actual hole for mine is is quite small, 3.250 long by 3.50 wide. See the photo (you will also get a chance to see some of my welds BEFORE I took a short course). The cheaper Lokar boot is too small to fit well. This entire process is touchy as centerlines are kinda tough to define.
The e-brake hole is that oblong hole next to the shifter hole

The console was made up of 3/8" tubing and some sheet metal and some ABS plastic, then covered with the interior upholstery. The front cover metal has cutouts for a JVC stereo, an AC/heat vent and their controls. I bracketed it to the floor - see the channel just behind the shifter hole and to the dash. This console is not done yet - the covering still needs some finishing and the accessory holes trimmed out.

The gas pedal is fairly close to the steering column with the top of the pedal bell crank being generally in line with the Edelbrock carb. Foot room is at a premium and my size 12's are........

I did have to modify the brake pedal using my torch, a vise, hammer and crescent wrenches. This was a TCI error - wrong pedal arm but close enough to be made to fit with some judicious gas wrench help.

Hope this is some help to you.

Later

[randyr]

Dave, thanks for the pics of the console. Now that I have a welder, maybe I'll try my hand at something like that. There's also an ABS plastic place not too far from me too.

I finished fitting my floors today and started welding until I ran out of wire. I was still using the little spool that came with the welder. I'm set up with the argon now, too, but haven't started using it yet. I've cleaned the body flanges that the new floor attaches to but they still aren't all that clean so I thought the standard no-gas might work better for dirtier metal. I'm going to use gas around the firewall though. That needs to look really good. I'm really stoked about the new floors though. I think I did a pretty decent job of fitting them and can't wait to get them all welded up. I probably exceeded my grinding & cutting limit today in the noise polution department. Fortunately, there was only one person home on the back side of my apartment building today.... she's 87 and hard of hearing. I still like to be considerate by not making too much noise for too long of a time. I often roll the car back in the garage and shut the door to minimize the noise.

Anyway, hopefully I can take a couple of pics of my progress tomorrow.

I know what you mean about having too many things to fix. At least I don't have a lawn to mow so that's one thing off my list.

R2

[Irelands child]

I finished fitting my floors today and started welding until I ran out of wire. I was still using the little spool that came with the welder. I'm set up with the argon now, too, but haven't started using it yet. I've cleaned the body flanges that the new floor attaches to but they still aren't all that clean so I thought the standard no-gas might work better for dirtier metal. I'm going to use gas around the firewall though.
Anyway, hopefully I can take a couple of pics of my progress tomorrow.

I know what you mean about having too many things to fix. At least I don't have a lawn to mow so that's one thing off my list.

R2

You are right with the kinda dirty metal with no gas though I would still use MIG/gas combo on the fire wall. Gas (acetylene) welding puts way too much heat in the steel and causes a lot of warping - then you will be spending a bunch of time shrinking the metal plus hammer and dolly work. You can run .5 to 1.0 inch stitch welds with the MIG by going from one side, doing a couple of welds 4-6 inches apart then going to the other side.

(Don't forget to change the polarity when you switch to MIG w/argon)

Looking forward to seeing some pictures.

Back to my yard work before some more April showers. Sigh....
Dave

[randyr]

[QUOTE=Irelands child]You are right with the kinda dirty metal with no gas though I would still use MIG/gas combo on the fire wall. Gas (acetylene) welding puts way too much heat in the steel and causes a lot of warping - then you will be spending a bunch of time shrinking the metal plus hammer and dolly work. You can run .5 to 1.0 inch stitch welds with the MIG by going from one side, doing a couple of welds 4-6 inches apart then going to the other side.

(Don't forget to change the polarity when you switch to MIG w/argon)


Yeah, I will definitely use the mig/gas combo on the firewall. Direct Sheetmetal's instructions recommend welding through the 5/16" holes I drilled for removing the spot welds of the old firewall then doing the "stitch weld around the edges to finish it off, rotating from one side of the car to the other to minimize heat/warpage, etc.

I'm lovin this! How did I make it all these years without a welder?

[randyr]

OK - with the floorboard hole hole for the shifter - if you know which bolt holes on the gold colored plate it will be finally mounted (may need the seats in) you have to start out with a center line of the shifter assembly and carefully measure it up. The actual hole for mine is is quite small, 3.250 long by 3.50 wide. See the photo (you will also get a chance to see some of my welds BEFORE I took a short course). The cheaper Lokar boot is too small to fit well. This entire process is touchy as centerlines are kinda tough to define.
The e-brake hole is that oblong hole next to the shifter hole

I also posed the same question about hole size for the shifter to Lokar....they just responded with the recommendation of using a 4" hole saw to cut the hole for the shifter. I don't know if I've seen a hole saw that big I guess it mostly depends on the type of shifter boot I decide on.....

[Irelands child]

I also posed the same question about hole size for the shifter to Lokar....they just responded with the recommendation of using a 4" hole saw to cut the hole for the shifter. I don't know if I've seen a hole saw that big I guess it mostly depends on the type of shifter boot I decide on.....

That will work - you will just have to square it off with metal trimmers (if necessary).
This is what you need - 4" hole saw, an arbor to mount it on and a Jilson Metal Shear (http://www.jilson.com/shears.htm).

You can buy the hole saw and arbor from McMaster Carr
( http://www.mcmaster.com/) and the shear from Eastwood though I paid a lot less from someone else (
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...emType=PRODUCT)

McMaster-Carr has all kinds of good stuff - my orders get to me overnight as yours probably would as they have a warehouse in LA. They ship at cost. Lots of good fasteners and other misc. hardware - much better then Home Despot or Lowes and equivalent or better then Fastenal.

Dave

[randyr]

Hey Dave,
I finished welding the new floor.....here's some pics.....overall I was pretty happy with and and once I prime & paint it, it'll look much better. I'll seal all the seams with a good body sealer after I prime. Of course, then I'll cover it all up with Dynamat or something....LOL. I still have to drill the holes for the various body-to-frame mounts throughout the floor but that won't be a big deal. I know where they go.

I switched to mig/gas yesterday and started welding the firewall. That's a whole different experience. The guy at the gas shop suggested running the gas at 22lbs of pressure for welding indoors. I've welded the entire firewall, including the bead around the edge and I'm out of gas now. It seems like it went pretty quickly but it's a pretty small bottle. I have some grinding a prepping to do in finishing up but I think it's going to look pretty good.....a far cry better than the butchered firewall that was in there

[Don Shillady]

I am just replying so that I get notices of this thread because I like to see the details of IC2's chassis. I am studying his muffler mounts at the moment. I wish there was a similar thread on steering/header clearance for a SBC in a Model A but I take small comfort from IC2s admission of multiple tries to get just the right fit, so I may expect to make several tries to get plug clearance for the left rear corner of the SBC head as well as clearance to the Vega box cross steering. I think the steering clearance can be settled but the SBC hugger headers really make plug replacement tricky!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

[34_40]

I am just replying so that I get notices of this thread because I like to see the details of IC2's chassis. I am studying his muffler mounts at the moment. I wish there was a similar thread on steering/header clearance for a SBC in a Model A but I take small comfort from IC2s admission of multiple tries to get just the right fit, so I may expect to make several tries to get plug clearance for the left rear corner of the SBC head as well as clearance to the Vega box cross steering. I think the steering clearance can be settled but the SBC hugger headers really make plug replacement tricky!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Glad to see you post Don. Like you I'm always watching for pics from Irelands Child! ALWAYS has great pics! I'm trying to figure out how to get the tailpipes over or under the rear axle and out the back. And like you my block hugger headers are a b_tch to get some of the header bolts tight but, the plugs aren't bad.

[IC2]

Oh my golly - Don - you finally made it to Randy's and Dave's (and now Mike) mile long thread. Glad to see you here .

Mike - life is a lot easier with the exhaust under the axle - especially if you are welding up your own. There are several less bends to cloud the issue and since there really isn't a lot of axle travel, no more chance of hitting it anyhow. Mine with the '32 style tank for sure was a whole lot easier and if you are worried about appearances - you really can't see the tailpipes with the wheel/tire blocking it off.

Header bolts - I'm sure that somewhere way back here I had a post to Randy that I used Breslin Split Lock bolts. I got mine from Summit, kinda expensive, but not much else would fit my Sanderson headers on the GT40P heads. Looks like their website is down due to the owner passing away(too bad - real nice guy to talk to). Percy's appear to be about the samehttp://www.jegs.com/i/Percy's/760/20010/10002/-1

(And no, it's not always this neat - that would be admitting that I had a sick mind)

[34_40]

Oh my golly - Don - you finally made it to Randy's and Dave's (and now Mike) mile long thread. Glad to see you here .

Mike - life is a lot easier with the exhaust under the axle - especially if you are welding up your own. And if you are worried about appearances - you really can't see the tailpipes with the wheel/tire blocking it off.

Header bolts - I'm sure that somewhere way back here I had a post to Randy that I used Breslin Split Lock bolts.

(And no, it's not always this neat - that would be admitting that I had a sick mind)

Thanks for the pics Dave. I used allen head capscrews as it was the only way I could rotate a screw. Hex head was hitting the header tube making it impossible to tighted properly. Even with the allen bolts I still have 1 bolt that's miserable to tighten! I am going to try and go under the rear axle but I want it to "kick over" and run under the frame. If I don't like that I'll copy your design. Thanks Again.

Lastly. I got a call from Spadaro's and Bill said he couldn't read his writing! He goofed my address and also the order. He was sending things I hadn't ordered. We cleared it all up and he said I should have it today, Just call me Murphy.... 8-(

[randyr]

Hey Dave,
I inquired on the tech line of Southern Polyurethane about their epoxy primer. He said the self-etching primer should come off before applying epoxy. It may be fine in the short run but he couldn't speak to how long it may last but leaving it and shooting the epoxy over it.

I have a small compressor but would certainly need a low-volume spray guy to minimize overspray, etc, giving my garage situation. Doesn't epoxy require a special respirator as well?

How's it going with your hood sides, etc? Are you shooting paint yet?

Can you believe this thing is now over 1900 views???

Randy

[Irelands child]

Hey Dave,
I inquired on the tech line of Southern Polyurethane about their epoxy primer. He said the self-etching primer should come off before applying epoxy. It may be fine in the short run but he couldn't speak to how long it may last but leaving it and shooting the epoxy over it.

I have a small compressor but would certainly need a low-volume spray guy to minimize overspray, etc, giving my garage situation. Doesn't epoxy require a special respirator as well?

How's it going with your hood sides, etc? Are you shooting paint yet?

Can you believe this thing is now over 1900 views???

Randy

Hi Randy,
I have a feeling others are watching - and you can be rest assured if we say something wrong, we will hear about it.

If you called SPI you probably talked to Barry, the owner. He is opinionated and fun to talk to - he and I tend to settle ALL the world's problems whenever we talk. His paints are rated extremely well by a lot of pros and are significantly cheaper as he doesn't have to sponsor NA$CAR folks like Jeff Gordon or advertise heavily.

The epoxy should be on bare steel for the best coverage. The etch primer will not allow proper adhesion to the steel and eventually, the crosslinking of the molecular structure with your final paint. If you use the self etch as your primary primer, the new base coat paints can possibly cause a paint lift problem. Self etch is OK under an older acryllic paint like DuPont Centari, but not good under the new stuff.

Did you ask SPI for a copy of their tech manual? This is a good ref doc for SPI

If you have only a small compressor, i.e. 1-2Hp and a 12 to 20 gallon tank, and 4-6 CFM output @40psig, you might be best off with a Sears mid line siphon feed gun. There will be some overspray, regardless, but you probably wont PO too many folks. As far as a mask, as long as you stay away from isocyanates (like in cyanide), you wont need anything more then a North or 3M carbon filter half mask, chemical style goggles rather then the standard grinding goggles and Harbor Freight nitrile gloves. If you start to spray an iso paint or clear coat then you need to consider as supplied air system - which I have.

My hood sides are ready to paint - I had a belly bug and got sidelined for a couple of days of not much headway . Tomorrow is the day!! Hood sides, tops of the front fenders , and touch up any other bare spots, then on to polyester primer, final block sanding, another thin coat of epoxy, a bit of touch up sanding then PAINT !!!!!