Another build thread? Yep, my track-style T

[Dave Severson]

Guess I haven't been checking this one for awhile.... Don't take this wrong, but I'm a bit nervous about all the suspension components, especially the hairpins on the axle end, being mounted in single shear..... Hate to see a big pothole snap something crucial some day.... Maybe either a double bracket, or even a clevis end instead of a heim end might build in a bit of a safety margin?????

[J. Robinson]

Hi Dave. Certainly no offense taken; actually I appreciate your concern. The bottom line is, the radius rod itself would either bend or snap long before those grade 8 bolts give way. If the rod end breaks, double brackets would have no effect either way. Clevises are a viable alternative, but they are really no stronger than good quality rod ends. I guess it comes down to personal preference; anyone building a car should do whatever makes them feel confident and secure...

[brickman]

I agree with J, I think it's called shear strength and it's incredible how much force it takes to shear off a grade 8 bolt that size.

[J. Robinson]

I left off with the front motor mounts done; next comes the transmission mount crossmember. I like for the transmission crossmember to be removable so that the transmission can be removed/replaced without pulling the engine out of the car. I have made a number of these, over the past 30 years, in the method I am describing here. It is simple and easy to do.

I am using the stock Chevy S-10 rubber trans mount. First, I have the tailshaft of the transmission propped up at the desired height and centered between the framerails (actually, this was done prior to building the front mounts) and the rubber mount bolted in place on the trans. I begin fabricating the crossmember by making a plate to fit under the rubber mount. In this instance, it is a piece of 1/4" x 3" flat stock cut 3" long, two of its four corners rounded off, and drilled in the center. I bolted this plate, finger tight, to the rubber mount. Next, I cut a piece of 1" OD tubing so that it would fit between the framerails and put a slight bend in the center. How much of a bend, if any, depends on your application and it is a matter of trial & error. I bent this one so it would fit under the back (straight) edge of the mount plate. Once satisfied with the general shape of the tube, I removed the plate from the rubber mount and welded it to the tube. It is positioned so it is centered from side to side and the rounded corners stick out from the tube.

After the crossmember cooled off from being welded, I bolted the whole thing to the trans mount so I see where to put the frame mount brackets. At this point I discovered that the bend was a little too deep and I needed to bend the ends back down slightly. With the mount plate welded in place, it wouldn't fit back in my bender, so I notched each end on the chop saw, bent them down, and welded them in position.

The frame mount brackets are made from a piece of 1 1/4" OD tubing cut 3" long and split down the center so that the 1" OD crossmember will fit into it. (I have also made these brackets from angle iron on some previous jobs, including the ones on my coupe.) Now, with the crossmember bolted to the rubber mount once again, I vise-gripped the brackets in position and tack-welded them to the frame. I lucked out here because the brackets are positioned so that they weld to the lower frame rail and to the back side of the rear radius rod bracket. This makes the crossmember brackets "self-gusseting", so no additional gussets or braces aer necessary.

After tack-welding the brackets, I removed the crossmember again and welded the brackets solidly in place (More welding will be done on the bottom when I disassemble the car for finishing.).

[J. Robinson]

The final step to completing the transmission crossmember is to put it back in position and drill the bolt holes through each end. I use 3/8" bolts. When I do final assembly on the car, I will use grade 8 bolts with self-locking nuts. Finally, the engine is sitting on its permanent mounts.

[Itoldyouso]

Look at that last picture............you've pretty much got a car there !! You got serious about this project in April, and have gotten this far in such a short amount of time. Very impressive. It takes me that long to figure out how to make the next bracket.

Regarding the hairpins, I was just looking at the ones on my '27 the other day, and realized how spindly they are. The threaded studs for the rod ends are only like 1/2 inch, compared to the normal 5/8 like on my T and most other cars. Yet they were driven very hard on all kinds of conditions and roads for lots of years, and never were any problem. I think we rodders tend to over engineer stuff, and if you look at some of the thin bracketry on production cars, or on aftermarket hot rod components, you wonder how they hold up.........but they do.

Tell the Mrs you have 20,000 people looking over your shoulder here waiting for the next update. Maybe she will let you put off those honeydo's until the car is done. (Oh yeah, that might really happen )

The picture below shows how skinny the front hairpins on the '27 are.


Don

[J. Robinson]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of old hotrods from the 50's and 60's and skinny little radius rods were common. The problem is compounded when you see those skinny little pieces used on a tube axle. When the car leans over in a corner, something somewhere has to flex and it's usually the radius rods that do the flexing. Amazingly, after many years and many thousands of miles, there are a lot of them that have survived and are still in use...

I use 1/2" rod ends on the front ends of my cars and have been doing it for years, but I use 3/4" OD tubing with a thread bung welded in the end instead of that scrawny 5/8" with threads cut directly inside like the stuff you see from the old days...

20,000 people!!? I wonder how many people actually follow a thread like this... I think her attitude is more like,"You already have one hotrod, why the big hurry on this one?" Anyway, I need to keep her happy. You see, one of our other hobbies is shooting. She's pretty good with her military style .45 (Taurus PT-1911) and absolutely wicked with her 9mm (Taurus PT-92). Whenever we go to the range, she always puts her first two rounds in the silhouette where his family jewels would be. She claims it's unintentional, but I have to wonder if it's some kind of unspoken warning...

[J. Robinson]

With the engine mounted, I have moved on to building the radiator and grille shell support. The radiator I am using is an aluminum racing radiator for a Honda Civic. It fits the grille shell with room to spare and has the mounts already on it for a Honda Civic electric fan. After mocking up the radiator at a few different angles and evaluating the pros and cons of each, I decided to push the bottom of it forward almost to the front crossmember and tilt it back slightly so that the radiator cap is accessible without removing the grille shell.

The first step here was to bend a piece of 3/4" OD tubing to fit the shape of the inside of the nose (grille shell). There was no science or elaborate calculations involved here; I just cut a piece of tubing about 10" too long, started at the center, and began bending it a little at a time until I got a hoop with a pretty good fit. Then I wedged it in place between the framerails with the nose mocked up in position and marked where to cut the bottom ends off.

The next step was to fabricate the brackets to bolt this hoop to. I cut two 4" long pieces of old bed rail material (lightweight angle iron) and drilled a hole through the corner edge of each. Then, with the hoop lying flat on the floor, I vise-gripped the brackets in place so I could mark where to drill the bolt holes.

With the brackets now bolted to the hoop, I clamped the assembly in place so I could weld the brackets to the frame. Notice in the picture I had to clamp the bracket 3 directions at once to get the correct angle; to the side, to the front, and to the hoop. Everything was measured multiple times to make sure both sides are the same, the brackets tack-welded in place, clamps removed and nose and radiator checked for fit. Once satisfied, I removed the nose and radiator and welded the brackets solid.

[Itoldyouso]

Ah, teaching a woman to shoot a gun is like, well, like........TEACHING A WOMAN TO SHOOT A GUN !! What were you thinking , man ??????? Didn't you learn anything from Lorraina Bobitt???


If I were you, I would do those chores like RIGHT NOW.


Don

[J. Robinson]

With the support hoop finished, the next step is to make the appropriate bracketry for mounting the radiator. In its stock application, the Civic radiator uses a rubber insulated 3-point mounting system. Since the mounting studs are already welded in place, I decided to put them to use.

The first task was to find some useable rubber insulators. A trip to the local hardware store netted me some electrical grommets that, used in combination, will suit the purpose. The large diameter thin ones fit over the weld on the studs and protect the radiator tanks from rubbing the steel brackets I will make. The small diameter thick ones will keep the studs centered in the bracket "cups".

I began making the brackets by cutting 3 rings from a piece of 1" black iron pipe. The rings are 1/2" wide to match the thickness of the small grommets. Next, for the bottom brackets, I cut two pieces of 3/16" x 3" flat stock 2 1/2" long and welded a ring to one corner of each of them. Note that these two pieces are opposites of each other.

I used some weatherstrip adhesive to hold the large grommets in place on the radiator. The small grommets fit perfectly in the "cups" I just made.

The final step for the lower brackets was to position them on the front crossmember and weld them in place. To do that, I mocked up the radiator in position with the brackets in place (because they are not spaced equally on the radiator), tack-welded them, removed the radiator, and welded them solid.

[erik erikson]

Ah, teaching a woman to shoot a gun is like, well, like........TEACHING A WOMAN TO SHOOT A GUN !! What were you thinking , man ??????? Didn't you learn anything from Lorraina Bobitt???


If I were you, I would do those chores like RIGHT NOW.


Don

Windage and elevation??

[J. Robinson]

The final part of the radiator mount is the top clamp. I made it out of a piece of 1/4" x 2" flat stock, a piece of 3/16" x 2" flat stock, the third ring I cut earlier, and a 3/8-16 x 3/4" bolt & nut.

After installing the grommets on the top stud of the radiator and welding the ring to one end of the 3/16" bracket, I held both pieces (the bracket and the tab) in place to determine where to drill the bolt hole and how much the top bracket needed to be bent. After bending and drilling, I bolted the two pieces together and tack-welded the nut to the underside of the 1/4" tab. When it was cooled enough to handle, I took the two pieces apart, put a washer/spacer between them and reassembled them.

Lastly, I held the assembled clamp in place on the radiator and tacked the tab to the hoop. I unbolted the top piece, removed the radiator again, and welded the tab solidly to the hoop. Finally, after it cooled, I re-installed the radiator and reassembled the top bracket without the washer/spacer between it and the tab. That compressed the rubber grommets just enough to keep everything nice and snug.

[J. Robinson]

Windage and elevation! Good one... Yeah, Don, I learned a lot from Lorraina Bobitt.., like, uhh, shut up and do as you're told!

[Itoldyouso]

When I first looked, I thought that was a custom made aluminum radiator, but that is smart using the Civic one. What is the deal, I see you say it is a racing model? How did you come across that one? It fits perfectly in there, and sure looks thick enough.

Don

[J. Robinson]

I found that nifty little radiator on Ebay. I was looking for something that would fit in the sprint car nose and the dimensions for that one were posted on the Ebay ad. It looked like a good deal ($131 with shipping) so I bought it. It is a direct bolt-in for a Honda Civic, but it's twice as thick as a stock Civic and it's all welded aluminum instead of plastic tanks. I believe this thing would probably cool a small block Chevy or Ford if it wasn't too radical. I used an Opel Kadett radiator to cool a mild 327 Chev years ago; worked fine.