Thread: Another Brookville body whine

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A lot of you have suffered through my bit@#in' about my crummy '30-'31 Brookville body problems. While doing final poly primer(to fill in the lows) sand for color I spotted this little indescretion. These are my two doors, bottom-to-bottom. The raised detail is obviously different sizes. The one on the right is 15/16", the left is 1 3/16". While it wont make a bit of difference to somone looking at the car, it just points out the lack of quality on these cars .

1/4" is a lot of error in something like that. I wonder how they let that slip by. I'm guessing they saw it after they invested mega$ in their dies, and had to hope that no one noticed.

You might want to drop them an email and say: "Hey, did you know . . . "

They'd probably say: "No problem. On the average, they're right on?"

Jack
- Also a member of the bitchnmoan club.

I wonder what a stock '30-31 would measure? Could it be they actually copied what Henry actually did? Their new '32 3 window was digitized from a genny car, warts and all. Don't know if they did it that way back when they tooled the '30-1.

Jack and Bob,
This has gone to Brookville along with a yearly (until this year) visit to their display at York. I have it posted on another forum:

I think Brookville is a better choice than trying to restore a 74 - 75 year old original 31A roadster but I am at least a 2 years behind on finishing this project. I am NOT a body man. I feel that there should be an attempt by the manufacturer to produce a "quality" product as the Golohans (sp?) of Brookville stated to me. This is a partial list of aches and pains:
1.Right quarter was totally flat - did not have a bit of curve to match the left nor the door. This took many hours of disassembly and reassembly.
2. Neither rear quarter was welded to the sub frame only had 6-8 tabs bent over the subframe made for a floppy body.
3. The floor boards kinked while kneeling(I weigh less than 200#) in them to set up the seats - required new ones made up by my local Metal Supermarket.
4 Cowl cover missed the right cowl side by over 1/2 an inch, the left by ~1/4"
5. Hinges were bound up so tight they kinked the doors. Bushed with Oilite and made new pins and straightened the kinks
6. Most body rivets not bucked enough - needed to bolt and/or weld the entire body together.
7. Molding under the windshield needed complete reshaping.
8.The original one piece windshield posts that I purchased were ground to the point of paper thickness - returned for credit - also completely misdrilled the brass risers for the posts.Also the posts were not finished or chromed read the (real) fine print. I ended up with LeBarron Bonney stainless 2 piece posts
9. I ordered a 5" recessed firewall for a SB Ford and got a 3" so needed to modify it 2 more inches to clear.
10. The grille shell needed many repairs to look look and fit properly.
11. When fitting up the top, the upolsterer discovered the entire rear section of the body was off by up to .500 which required him to adjust the rear window in the top fabric.
12. The hot rod rear deck former is just plain poorly done I should have elected for the original wood style. This was corrected.
13. Their poor grade of primer had to be completely stripped it was up to .030 thick in places and covering a multitude of workmanship sins
14. There isnt a single panel on the car that is smooth enough for prime and paint without many hours of metal, filler and high fill primer work
And it goes on and on. I guess they may make and OK 28-9 and 32, but after this experience, not for me - I'd buy someone elses. I'm making the best of it and it will be a nice car when done but the extra work on a new steel car has been frustrating
Oh yes one good thing happened it fit the TCI frame nicely (theirs appears to be an old design TCI clone) !!!!

I have since found that one complaint was wrong - Henry Ford did use tabs to fasten the body to the subframe no welds .

When the originals were manufactured they were indeed rough by today's standard but the rivits were properly bucked, the doors closed properly, the quarters and cowl were shaped correctly and the various panels were made from a strong enough steel that they wouldn't bend easily - I previously did own an original - and it was well put together (again, by the 1931 standards for a $495 sedan)

Gee, I would have not been able to handle all that. My Bebops 'glass decklid is slightly off but when closed the gap along the bottom edge is pretty even. Inside the rumble are there is some assymmetry in the 1" steel reinforcement tubing but I don't think that will be evident when the deck lid is closed. My main problem has been the huge trans tunnel in the Bebops body and the added work to reduce it took a lot of time. If anything, the Bebops firewall indent and the trans tunnel look like they are meant for a big block and I did have to add a stainless plate to the firewall after I cut out the the huge trans tunnel. However the Brookville frame is exceptionally straight and measurement from the center of the king pins to the opposite rear frame corner were made equal to less than 1/64" simply by minor tweaking of the four bar threads. My only minor complaint about the frame is that if you choose to use bumpers the small 5/16" threaded holes on the rear of the frame (two per side) fit nicely with the stock brackets if you cut them off as per instructions. Still those little bolts look too small for my 230 lb. on the rear rumble step plate and it definitely gave a wobbly bumper on the rear. One of my innovations of which I am most proud is not visible, but I found that one can simply reverse the pieces cut off the standard bumper brackets (with a little bending in a vise) and drill some holes to mount a second bumper brace under the frame where it is not visible using stouter 7/16" bolts through the frame. Now I can stand on the rumble step plate and bounce up and down and it is like a rock with motion only in the suspension! I have had a large distraction due to a contract I signed last August but I hope to get back to the car and finish the accelerator cable in a month or so, but I am sorry to learn about problems with the metal body. I am not very happy about having non-original fiberglass but it does seem pretty straight except for the oversize trans tunnel. Surprisingly so far all the body accessories I have purchased from Bratton's Antique Parts for a stock '29 have fit quite well on the Bebops 'glass. Ireland's child, this is partly a case of you knowing the imprefections but maybe keeping most of the small things to yourself and/or maybe you are getting near the end and are just weary. Take a day off and read Street Rodder to get your enthusiasm back. Let me know if you want a photo of how to use the cut off pieces of the bumper brackets because those little 5/16" mounting bolts on the frame are just too small for a heavy bumper let alone to absorb a 5 mph "bump".

Don Shillady
Retired (?) Scientist/teen rodder

I took a look at my Brookvlle 31 body.
Same deal as yours on the door bottom molding/beltline/whatever match.

I don't have a stock A to look at, but checking pics of my pal's gennie 29 A roadster looks like the same thing in the same area except the driver's door is the skinny side.

Other area's seem to be ok, but probably won't get noticed until I get to the paint stage.

I did try my 32 top on the 31 and it's a good fit except for being 2" too long in the horizontal bar area right behind the windshield post.
I'm using the 31 windshield stanchions and 2" chopped 32 windshield posts.
A nice swap fwiw.
(Not sure if the 32 posts work with an A windshield frame since I'm building my own windshield frame.)

The 32 top was tried on for size since the rear of the top leans forward and is a little swoopier than the vertical rear of an A top.


Bumpers?

Don,
Have't seen you here for a while - I just assumed you were still trying to make light bend (Einstein?)

Glad to hear that the Bebops body is pretty good. There are a lot of different mfrs out there but not all are good.

Since I've modified the rear of my frame for a '32 gas tank, IF I use bumpers the spreader bar has 7/16 bolts and should carry my weight. And C9 wont consider them, but others might have need any photos you have.

C9
I'm using the deluxe windshield posts which are in effect, the same as 2" chopped. In using the forward slanting '32 top, you might run into some head rubbing on the top if you have to have the seat all the way back. Unfortunately my upholsterer didn't take pictures and I forgot my camera when I visited him for final approval - I'm using LeBaron-Bonney irons but a custom designed covering that is way different then the stock '31.

As a note, your upolsterer might be very happy with you if he can do his work before final paint if he can put it together for ease of disassembly then reassembly after paint. He wont have to worry as much about bumps and scratches to your mega buck BC/CC

Oh, the door problem - I really don't think Henry built them this far off - tho Brookville did, based on my other problems and lack of their QC

C9 - I was doing some more sanding and another item that is mentioned is the body band under the windshield that holds the cowl cover/gas tank down - the top part of the stamping, right side of mine was about 3/8" wider then the left and had to be sectioned to match. If yours is the same, I can explain how I fixed mine - but no digital photos.

Originally Posted by Irelands child

Don,

Since I've modified the rear of my frame for a '32 gas tank, IF I use bumpers the spreader bar has 7/16 bolts and should carry my weight. And C9 wont consider them, but others might have need any photos you have.

I have a 'gasser' style bumper on the rear of my 32 roadster.
So far it's not been hit, but much more than a light tap would probably allow damage.
I got nervous when people start following to close.
Not the usual drivin' a little bit close, but clowns who want to make you nervous or show you up or whatever it is their feeble little brains have cooked up.

The 31 will probably get a pair of nerf bars in the back.

Gennie bumpers be good, but front bumpers are so low in most cases that they're not much more than a decoration.
I was looking at my pal's full fendered 29 roadster last Thursday.
He did the fore and aft parking bit down at the "Great Race" pit stop gathering - one car after the other and the car in front would have had no problems backing into his grille shell and radiator.



C9
I'm using the deluxe windshield posts which are in effect, the same as 2" chopped. In using the forward slanting '32 top, you might run into some head rubbing on the top if you have to have the seat all the way back. Unfortunately my upholsterer didn't take pictures and I forgot my camera when I visited him for final approval - I'm using LeBaron-Bonney irons but a custom designed covering that is way different then the stock '31.

As a note, your upolsterer might be very happy with you if he can do his work before final paint if he can put it together for ease of disassembly then reassembly after paint. He wont have to worry as much about bumps and scratches to your mega buck BC/CC

My top upholstery guy is me.
I did the 32's top several years back and found it to be a pleasant and easy project.
A Lebaron-Bonney top kit . . . which I've found is what the great majority of trim shops use if you go in and have a top done.
Not too many upholstery guys make a top from scratch nowadays.



Oh, the door problem - I really don't think Henry built them this far off - tho Brookville did, based on my other problems and lack of their QC

I don't think Henry built them that far off either.
I'll be looking for a gennie 30-31 roadster with camera in hand.
And post em when I get em.



C9 - I was doing some more sanding and another item that is mentioned is the body band under the windshield that holds the cowl cover/gas tank down - the top part of the stamping, right side of mine was about 3/8" wider then the left and had to be sectioned to match. If yours is the same, I can explain how I fixed mine - but no digital photos.

That's one I haven't noticed or looked for.
I do know that piece is a bitch to get aligned with the 32 style dash and pre-drilled holes under the dash in the body proper.
Looking from here, it looks like some sanding and touch-up will be required to get rid of the 'installation' scratches.
That piece may be installed prior to body paint if it looks like it will be a problem.

I'll check that piece for width when I get out to the garage today.
Ya got me curious.
I'm in the middle of making my own flanges for the filler neck of the Summit fuel tank I have.
The original ones leak when you fill up.
And to think that I bought this tank to take care of a fuel cell weepage problem at the filler on that.
I'll be making my own tanks for the 31.
Pretty sure I can turn out a tank that doesn't have fuel pouring out of it after a fill-up....

Dave and C9x, It is an honor to chat with you guys. I am not finshed with my writing chore quite yet and need to ge back to the car soon. I just tell myself it is too hot to work in the garage now and that is partly true but I just want to keep my membership in the Forum going while I am mostly inactive. All I did this summer was to get my stock windshield frame filled with glass using the stock rubber gasket from Bratton's Antique parts. The frame is the 2" chopped version but all that was necessary was to trim the gasket. However I have yet to drill the holes for the 2" chopped stanchions (stainless). Anyway here is a picture of my main innovation. If you have to buy new rear bumper brackets they are $158 a pair from Brattons (part no. 24670) and so you have to approach cutting them with care and reverence but they were intended to extend forward quite a long distance and attach to the frame in the channel about 15" in front of the rear axle. With a Brookville tube frame this won't work because of the rear kickout in the frame around the rear pumpkin. You have to call Brookville for the exact place to cut those precious gennie brackets but it is about in half and Brookville then sells you a pair of flame cut brackets for $35 that attach over the top of their frame to two little bolts (5/16") on each side. That looks very weak to me so you can see in the picture the other cut off piece of the gennie bracket can be slightly bent in a vise and reversed to attach as an "under brace" to the gennie bracket. You have to drill a vertical hole through the frame on each side and I used a 7/16" bolt along with one 1/2" bolt to clamp the pieces together. Sometimes some of these simple things give pleasure in the sense of "I did it!" and I think that is a large part of the hot rod attitude of little innovations. I told the guy at Brookville about this but he only seemed slightly interested. At the price of those gennie/repro brackets it was a shame to throw away the front halves! In the picture you can just see the two small 5/16" bolts at the top of the frame covered by the rubber inner tube boot I had to put over the access hole in the floor for the top shock bolt. Someday when I have the car on a rack I plan to spray the underside of the floor with black rattle-can enamel, but I guess I am not going to put a mirror under the chassis in the future once it gets covered with mud splash, just wash off the top and keep the shiny side up!
When I went out to the garage to take the picture I noted that the Bebops '29 doors are smooth along the bottom. The only bead is in the all-in-one floor pan-splash-apron.

Don Shillady
Retired (?) Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Dave and C9x, It is an honor to chat with you guys. I am not finshed with my writing chore quite yet and need to ge back to the car soon. I just tell myself it is too hot to work in the garage now and that is partly true but I just want to keep my membership in the Forum going while I am mostly inactive. All I did this summer was to get my stock windshield frame filled with glass using the stock rubber gasket from Bratton's Antique parts. Don Shillady
Retired (?) Scientist/teen rodder

Thanks for the kind words.
I should be rewriting the latest book or be out in the garage while it's still cool (88 degrees F. now).
I can handle up to 100 degrees with the two big fans going in the garage.
Since Monsoon season is tying to roll in, humidity is up so get driven out of the garage earlier than usual.
Then I have to get my afternoon nap in before it gets too late.

I've been getting a lot of little jobs done on the 31, but got distracted a touch when I built the air/oil separator for the 32 and now I'm trying to cure the fuel tank problem with it.

Back to the 31 next week I hope.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My pal's 29 has bumpers as mentioned.
The gennie body sits on a TCI frame, but I'm not sure how he did the rear bumper.
I'll pop some pics next Saturday night if he shows up for the WhataBurger cruise.
Probably won't see him before that.

Here's a pic of our roadsters - taken at Mugu Rock north of Malibu, south of Oxnard on PCH (Pacific Coast Highway) Juy 5th 2002.

Lebaron Bonney tops on both cars, his roadster is un-chopped and now painted a satin black . . . which looks pretty good . . . I don't know what he was thinking of when he shot the baby poop yellow on the car.
DP90 and I'm guessing the paint was a $$ deal....

I have a 31 coupe if any measurements would help.

Thanks but I'm at the point that if it looks good - and I can make it smooth and shiny with filler and paint - that's the way it's going to stay. It's a driver not a show car so a few out of dimension pieces wont be seen. Again, thanks for the offer

Dave, I'm glad you said your nice car will be a "driver". I am writing to explain all the dust on my underside. It is due to a laughable foible. First I spilled some trans fluid and then I threw some absorbant on it and the absorbant sent up a cloud of dust! However this will be minor once the car is on the road.

Don Shillady
Retired (?) Sceintist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Dave, I'm glad you said your nice car will be a "driver". I am writing to explain all the dust on my underside. It is due to a laughable foible. First I spilled some trans fluid and then I threw some absorbant on it and the absorbant sent up a cloud of dust! However this will be minor once the car is on the road.

Don Shillady
Retired (?) Sceintist/teen rodder

Don,
I'm embarrassed as to how dusty my chassis, even tho covered, has gotten in my basement garage. I have 2 separate shops sitting side by side - and my well used radial arm saw is right at the seldom closed connecting doorway to make sure everthing is well coated