Thread: 4 Bangers

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Yes, the Ecotech engines are a more recent development. My '98 Sunfire body would seem to be very similar to the shell of the Pontiac Ecotech cars but how many were built, ten, twelve? It would seem to me that it would be very unlikely to find any sort of bargain used engine from a wreck. It is probably possible to upgrade a street car to an Ecotech level but at about the cost to build any race car rather than the basic idea of street rodding in taking a street car and souping it up for a reasonable cost and still running it on the street. Dave is right about the HP/weight issue, that is very important, but I learn from his expertise on the idea of keeping the rolling resistance to a minimum with skinny tires. Note that the three-wheel high-mpg cars at http://www.rqriley.com/plans.html weigh around 1400 pounds total. So it still seems better to look for one of those two-door hatch back frog-shaped Pintos and then find a turbo-2300 cc Pinto engine from a T-bird; at least that is a possible path using a junk engine w turbo which can be rebuilt rather than put out many thousands on an Ecotech engine. However, while we are rambling on this thread I would be interested in knowing about availability of Pontiac Ecotech engines since I already have the Sunfire shell which is at present a nice aerodynamic shape with a sewing machine for an engine, hah! Any information on build up of the little Sunfire engine? Again all the reviews are for the Sunfire with the bigger engine but probably 99% of the Sunfires on the road have the smaller engine as does mine, so the trick is how to address souping up the small engine. There was a turbocharged V6 Sunfire but apparently there were problems with oil leaks and bearing failure so maybe it is useless to soup up an even more fragile engine. Some speed equipment is available for the smaller engine but often you encounter comments warning not to turbocharge that block so maybe the whole idea is to just get a better block/engine, but where can one find an Ecotech block for the price of a rebuild? Keep in mind that you can probably build a nice SBC 350 for under $2000 and a Buick V6 rebuild should be similar, how much for an Ecotech engine? Maybe I am not up to date regarding the Ecotech engine, there must be available parts since they raced them but what is the approximate cost? Just some rambling comments.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Keep in mind that you can probably build a nice SBC 350 for under $2000 and a Buick V6 rebuild should be similar, how much for an Ecotech engine? Maybe I am not up to date regarding the Ecotech engine, there must be available parts since they raced them but what is the approximate cost? Just some rambling comments.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I first became aware of these (btw the correct spelling is without the H at the end in case anyone wants to do a search) at SEMA about 4 years ago (I'm not that much into the tuner sort of thing), when walking past a huge display in the enormous GM booth (a somewhat inadequate word for the size of it). I was surprised by the amount of factory hop up stuff as well as the range of pallet engines they had. This caused me to look around some more at the target market................it's pretty big. Lots of these in the tuner world and they crank some very good times at the strip. Of course, from my perspective, what caught my eye first was the twin overhead cam configuration and how much it looked like a mini Offenhauser, which clicks in my brain to track or lakes roadster. Well, for me it's pretty much a mind exercise since I'm already committed to V8s in the builds in process and don't think I'll do any more than that. But that doesn't keep me from maybe inspiring someone else. Somewhere here Robot should pipe up as we've been kicking this around for his roadster the past few months.

Anyway, just a few references to give you an idea on cost comparisons. Yes, factory crate engines are up there with the SBC, especially if you go for the supercharged ones. However, in the rest of the market these things are CHEAP. I've seen them in the local Craigs list with computer and harness & less than 50k miles for anywhere from $100 - 500. Here's one on ebay right now for $250 that hasn't had an opening bid even after 6 days, though it lacks the computer: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-2-E...spagenameZWDVW. In the recent past I've seen several new ones on ebay in a crate for anywhere from $600 - 1000 for the 2.2, and just under $2k for the 2.4 WITH 6 speed manual from a Solstice with less than 10k miles.

Again, I only know this little bit because I'm mildly interested and did some minimal research. Apparently there're some years (generally newer) more desireable than others because of upgrades. I checked with a couple outfits on carburetion and distributor adapting with the idea in mind that a more traditional looking roadster would forego the computer and injection, and they are available, though not widely marketed because of limited appeal. And there are some logistic issues, for instance the distributors I've been told of are driven off the back of one of the cams which would cause firewall issues in a front to back mounting. Anyway, it looks like a rock solid, good hp potential, nifty looking engine that's already been around long enough to have a good reliability record, and advanced enough to be around a while longer (unlike the Quad 4 that had a relatively short cycle and some early teething problems).

nah they made alot

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Yes, the Ecotech engines are a more recent development. My '98 Sunfire body would seem to be very similar to the shell of the Pontiac Ecotech cars but how many were built, ten, twelve? It would seem to me that it would be very unlikely to find any sort of bargain used engine from a wreck. It is probably possible to upgrade a street car to an Ecotech level but at about the cost to build any race car rather than the basic idea of street rodding in taking a street car and souping it up for a reasonable cost and still running it on the street. Dave is right about the HP/weight issue, that is very important, but I learn from his expertise on the idea of keeping the rolling resistance to a minimum with skinny tires. Note that the three-wheel high-mpg cars at http://www.rqriley.com/plans.html weigh around 1400 pounds total. So it still seems better to look for one of those two-door hatch back frog-shaped Pintos and then find a turbo-2300 cc Pinto engine from a T-bird; at least that is a possible path using a junk engine w turbo which can be rebuilt rather than put out many thousands on an Ecotech engine. However, while we are rambling on this thread I would be interested in knowing about availability of Pontiac Ecotech engines since I already have the Sunfire shell which is at present a nice aerodynamic shape with a sewing machine for an engine, hah! Any information on build up of the little Sunfire engine? Again all the reviews are for the Sunfire with the bigger engine but probably 99% of the Sunfires on the road have the smaller engine as does mine, so the trick is how to address souping up the small engine. There was a turbocharged V6 Sunfire but apparently there were problems with oil leaks and bearing failure so maybe it is useless to soup up an even more fragile engine. Some speed equipment is available for the smaller engine but often you encounter comments warning not to turbocharge that block so maybe the whole idea is to just get a better block/engine, but where can one find an Ecotech block for the price of a rebuild? Keep in mind that you can probably build a nice SBC 350 for under $2000 and a Buick V6 rebuild should be similar, how much for an Ecotech engine? Maybe I am not up to date regarding the Ecotech engine, there must be available parts since they raced them but what is the approximate cost? Just some rambling comments.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I guess I lost track of the engine since they first announced the 700 HP version in the Drag-Caravan the first year they came out. My impression from the first drag engines was that they were special for factory-supported racing but I guess after the initial wringout they are now in production. I also have a 2003 Saturn but that seems to be a slightly different engine? Thanks for the link, Bob. What I would be interested in would be a bolt-in upgrade for my '98 Sunfire. It is a nice car but now the 2.2 has 78,000 miles on it so maybe with a little planning, a replacement-upgrade could be justified.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Here is the link to the tuner engine Bob referred to:

ECOtec Drag Engine Specs — GM Tuner Source

1450 HP at over 9000 rpm! Does anybody recall the corresponding numbers for the Offenhauser midget version?

Hey, I just realized my '98 Sunfire is ten years old! You know what, here is a link to a swap for an ECOtec engine!

an independent disney cast portal - ProteinSpill.com » 2004 Pontiac Sunfire Engine Swap

I bookmarked that site!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Just a thought on scary gas prices- Does anybody but a few really drive enough that gas is a big factor in their hobby? If you've already had a V-8 you already have an idea of how much you drive the hobby car so you can figure. In relative terms is it really that big a factor considering all the other things you invest in to complete a car?

Just a thought on scary gas prices- Does anybody but a few really drive enough that gas is a big factor in their hobby?

There are those who probably do drive a lot and many who don't care about the price of gas. Due in part to current gas prices, I don't take my 57 Olds as much as I used to. The Olds is about 4300 lbs powered by a BB 371 with the J2 option, and on a good day (with a tail wind )going a flat 55 mph, it will get you 8 MPG on premium fuel. On a bad day, with a headwind, you can expect 6 mpg). So the "old lady" sits when it comes to long trips.

As for using a 4 banger, I would probably look towards one of the GM Eco-Tec engines as found in many Pontiacs, Chevys and Olds. I had a 2003 Olds Alero with the 2.2 Eco-Tec and it was a good engine. They now come supercharged, and can be had in a crate for about $2300 w/o the supercharger. There were a couple of guys running Eco-Tec powered drag cars a couple of years back that were pumping out over 700 hp. Impressive for such a small motor.

I'm sure you could find a nice 4 banger for a lot less bucks (new or used) but the Eco-Tec has a lot of potential.

the best 4 banger i had was my winter beater a 1980 front wheel drive olds omega with a 2.5 iron duke an 4spd. i beat the piss out it and it kept on ticking i hated it cause it was so ugly but if you guys only knew the abuse i did to it you'd be amazed i bought it for $250.00 and sold it for $80.00 and it drove away not towed a kid bought it from me for an enduro race. the car was very reliable an never left me stranded i wish i could say the same for my other vehicles that look nicer and are newer lol.