Thread: 4 Bangers

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Is any one building street rods with 4 Bangers now days? Show pictures, want ideas. Gas is too high to play with V-8's any more. Comments welcome. Really want pictures! Please help!!

Yes Sir, my hot rod has 2 four bangers

Nothing currently. I have done a couple with the Pontiac Iron Duke 4 bangers, both were Track T's and both were neat little cars!!!! Built them many years back, like the time of the last great fuel shortage fiasco, doubt I have pictures anymore though..... One was built with a 1 1/2" X 3" rectangular frame, the other was done up with a 1 5/8" round tube moly frame with an old style Franklin quickie and sprint car style torsion bar suspension..... Would be a lot of fun now with all the goodies available for the four bangers!!!!!

I like the turbocharged Volvo 4 cylinders motors and would like to stick one in our 48 Thames panel--one of these days
hank

Yep. My track T has a 2.5L four-banger and 4-speed tranny out of a 1987 Chevy S-10. I am planning on replacing the TB injection with conventional carburetors. Otherwise, it will be stock for now.

Click on my name above and go to the thread on my buildup. I am posting it step by step with lots of pics.

Ultimately the power comes from fuel combustion so efficiency is the key idea. If I were not involved in a lifelong obsession with a Model-A roadster ('glass replica) I would be looking for a '74-'76 Pinto "frog" and then try to find a Thunderbird turbocharged 2300 Pinto engine, "they" say it is a bolt in! The nice thing about a turbocharger is that you can rig up a dash control for the waste gate and turn it on or off when you want it. Still I would think that more power even from a 4-banger means lower mileage; the power has to come from somewhere and the somewhere is more fuel. Even so as I recall the Pinto mpg was not that good even with natural aspiration. I have tried to "detune" my 350 to some extent for mpg at 250 HP but you know the Buick V6 was heavily touted by Brian Brennen in Rod Action back in the early 1980s as the best all around answer but folks still preferred V8s. The V8 nostalgia lasts until you are gone, for me the ultimate would still be a flathead with finned heads and a beehive oil filter on the firewall but I have tried four flatheads and found all of them to be cracked! Believe it or not someday it will be hard to find a 350 SBC, can you imagine that? Then folks will be looking for Grand National Buick V6 turbo setups! But wait (!) let's find out how Eli Manning likes his new Hybrid Caddy first. Maybe the shocking truth is that in ten years rodders will be running electrics with extra batteries? You have to admit it is easier to set up Nuclear power plants in some remote place and then plug your hybrid into a wall outlet in your garage than to get Congress to give permission to drill in Anwar! All you need then is some sort of secondary small diesel engine to get you home to your wall outlet after your batteries drain down! Let's see what sort of a hybrid Ferrari comes up with, you know some changes are coming but rodders will find a way to soup them up too! Just some ramblin' comments; change is coming!

Don Shillady
Retired SCientist/teen rodder

Nope, but I do have Inline 6's in my cars

Now I can do a inline 6, even a v-6. Dont get me wrong I love a turboed 4 banger but have never had a vehicle light/small enough where I could install to make me happy.

Originally Posted by BigTruckDriver

Now I can do a inline 6, even a v-6. Dont get me wrong I love a turboed 4 banger but have never had a vehicle light/small enough where I could install to make me happy.

It does take a light car to make the 4 bangers work best, got to keep the weight below 2,000 lbs and avoid big sticky tires in favor of about 6" of tread on the ground. Cutting down on weight and rolling resistance can really make a well-built 4 cylinder car fly...!!!!! The USAC guys used to make those Iron Dukes fly!!!!!! Horsepower to weight, as with any build, has to be your main consideration.

id like to take one of those new ecotec superchared 2.0's and put one in the vega!

Yes, the Ecotech engines are a more recent development. My '98 Sunfire body would seem to be very similar to the shell of the Pontiac Ecotech cars but how many were built, ten, twelve? It would seem to me that it would be very unlikely to find any sort of bargain used engine from a wreck. It is probably possible to upgrade a street car to an Ecotech level but at about the cost to build any race car rather than the basic idea of street rodding in taking a street car and souping it up for a reasonable cost and still running it on the street. Dave is right about the HP/weight issue, that is very important, but I learn from his expertise on the idea of keeping the rolling resistance to a minimum with skinny tires. Note that the three-wheel high-mpg cars at http://www.rqriley.com/plans.html weigh around 1400 pounds total. So it still seems better to look for one of those two-door hatch back frog-shaped Pintos and then find a turbo-2300 cc Pinto engine from a T-bird; at least that is a possible path using a junk engine w turbo which can be rebuilt rather than put out many thousands on an Ecotech engine. However, while we are rambling on this thread I would be interested in knowing about availability of Pontiac Ecotech engines since I already have the Sunfire shell which is at present a nice aerodynamic shape with a sewing machine for an engine, hah! Any information on build up of the little Sunfire engine? Again all the reviews are for the Sunfire with the bigger engine but probably 99% of the Sunfires on the road have the smaller engine as does mine, so the trick is how to address souping up the small engine. There was a turbocharged V6 Sunfire but apparently there were problems with oil leaks and bearing failure so maybe it is useless to soup up an even more fragile engine. Some speed equipment is available for the smaller engine but often you encounter comments warning not to turbocharge that block so maybe the whole idea is to just get a better block/engine, but where can one find an Ecotech block for the price of a rebuild? Keep in mind that you can probably build a nice SBC 350 for under $2000 and a Buick V6 rebuild should be similar, how much for an Ecotech engine? Maybe I am not up to date regarding the Ecotech engine, there must be available parts since they raced them but what is the approximate cost? Just some rambling comments.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Keep in mind that you can probably build a nice SBC 350 for under $2000 and a Buick V6 rebuild should be similar, how much for an Ecotech engine? Maybe I am not up to date regarding the Ecotech engine, there must be available parts since they raced them but what is the approximate cost? Just some rambling comments.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I first became aware of these (btw the correct spelling is without the H at the end in case anyone wants to do a search) at SEMA about 4 years ago (I'm not that much into the tuner sort of thing), when walking past a huge display in the enormous GM booth (a somewhat inadequate word for the size of it). I was surprised by the amount of factory hop up stuff as well as the range of pallet engines they had. This caused me to look around some more at the target market................it's pretty big. Lots of these in the tuner world and they crank some very good times at the strip. Of course, from my perspective, what caught my eye first was the twin overhead cam configuration and how much it looked like a mini Offenhauser, which clicks in my brain to track or lakes roadster. Well, for me it's pretty much a mind exercise since I'm already committed to V8s in the builds in process and don't think I'll do any more than that. But that doesn't keep me from maybe inspiring someone else. Somewhere here Robot should pipe up as we've been kicking this around for his roadster the past few months.

Anyway, just a few references to give you an idea on cost comparisons. Yes, factory crate engines are up there with the SBC, especially if you go for the supercharged ones. However, in the rest of the market these things are CHEAP. I've seen them in the local Craigs list with computer and harness & less than 50k miles for anywhere from $100 - 500. Here's one on ebay right now for $250 that hasn't had an opening bid even after 6 days, though it lacks the computer: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-2-E...spagenameZWDVW. In the recent past I've seen several new ones on ebay in a crate for anywhere from $600 - 1000 for the 2.2, and just under $2k for the 2.4 WITH 6 speed manual from a Solstice with less than 10k miles.

Again, I only know this little bit because I'm mildly interested and did some minimal research. Apparently there're some years (generally newer) more desireable than others because of upgrades. I checked with a couple outfits on carburetion and distributor adapting with the idea in mind that a more traditional looking roadster would forego the computer and injection, and they are available, though not widely marketed because of limited appeal. And there are some logistic issues, for instance the distributors I've been told of are driven off the back of one of the cams which would cause firewall issues in a front to back mounting. Anyway, it looks like a rock solid, good hp potential, nifty looking engine that's already been around long enough to have a good reliability record, and advanced enough to be around a while longer (unlike the Quad 4 that had a relatively short cycle and some early teething problems).

Just a thought on scary gas prices- Does anybody but a few really drive enough that gas is a big factor in their hobby? If you've already had a V-8 you already have an idea of how much you drive the hobby car so you can figure. In relative terms is it really that big a factor considering all the other things you invest in to complete a car?

Just a thought on scary gas prices- Does anybody but a few really drive enough that gas is a big factor in their hobby?

There are those who probably do drive a lot and many who don't care about the price of gas. Due in part to current gas prices, I don't take my 57 Olds as much as I used to. The Olds is about 4300 lbs powered by a BB 371 with the J2 option, and on a good day (with a tail wind )going a flat 55 mph, it will get you 8 MPG on premium fuel. On a bad day, with a headwind, you can expect 6 mpg). So the "old lady" sits when it comes to long trips.

As for using a 4 banger, I would probably look towards one of the GM Eco-Tec engines as found in many Pontiacs, Chevys and Olds. I had a 2003 Olds Alero with the 2.2 Eco-Tec and it was a good engine. They now come supercharged, and can be had in a crate for about $2300 w/o the supercharger. There were a couple of guys running Eco-Tec powered drag cars a couple of years back that were pumping out over 700 hp. Impressive for such a small motor.

I'm sure you could find a nice 4 banger for a lot less bucks (new or used) but the Eco-Tec has a lot of potential.

nah they made alot

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Yes, the Ecotech engines are a more recent development. My '98 Sunfire body would seem to be very similar to the shell of the Pontiac Ecotech cars but how many were built, ten, twelve? It would seem to me that it would be very unlikely to find any sort of bargain used engine from a wreck. It is probably possible to upgrade a street car to an Ecotech level but at about the cost to build any race car rather than the basic idea of street rodding in taking a street car and souping it up for a reasonable cost and still running it on the street. Dave is right about the HP/weight issue, that is very important, but I learn from his expertise on the idea of keeping the rolling resistance to a minimum with skinny tires. Note that the three-wheel high-mpg cars at http://www.rqriley.com/plans.html weigh around 1400 pounds total. So it still seems better to look for one of those two-door hatch back frog-shaped Pintos and then find a turbo-2300 cc Pinto engine from a T-bird; at least that is a possible path using a junk engine w turbo which can be rebuilt rather than put out many thousands on an Ecotech engine. However, while we are rambling on this thread I would be interested in knowing about availability of Pontiac Ecotech engines since I already have the Sunfire shell which is at present a nice aerodynamic shape with a sewing machine for an engine, hah! Any information on build up of the little Sunfire engine? Again all the reviews are for the Sunfire with the bigger engine but probably 99% of the Sunfires on the road have the smaller engine as does mine, so the trick is how to address souping up the small engine. There was a turbocharged V6 Sunfire but apparently there were problems with oil leaks and bearing failure so maybe it is useless to soup up an even more fragile engine. Some speed equipment is available for the smaller engine but often you encounter comments warning not to turbocharge that block so maybe the whole idea is to just get a better block/engine, but where can one find an Ecotech block for the price of a rebuild? Keep in mind that you can probably build a nice SBC 350 for under $2000 and a Buick V6 rebuild should be similar, how much for an Ecotech engine? Maybe I am not up to date regarding the Ecotech engine, there must be available parts since they raced them but what is the approximate cost? Just some rambling comments.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder