Thread: how much do you charge your friends?

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I have a situation that may get out of hand fast.
I have a friend that has been coming around the shop several times a week for years. He is a kind of a car guy. Drives a nice truck, likes to look at cars shows.. would like to own one.. but has neither the talent, tools, nor the perserverance to do anything about it. Several years ago I built a couple of Pro-Street Mustangs for guys. Tube chassis, narrowed 9", big block stuff, and he watched as they went together and always commented on how quick and easy it looked. Well, he got the hair to have one himself, so he bought this ratty 67 notchback, I mean it is a POS. He brings it over and wants me to build him one like the others. I show him that there is nothing left on his to use except the top and he gets ticked. The next time I see him he has purchased another one, this time a 66, that is just as bad except this one has a LOT of bondo hiding it all. I look it over and tell him the same thing as the other one. He says he still want to do it and what do I think it will cost and couldn't I just use the good parts from both?
I did the rough figures and told him it looked like a minimum $25k for a roller, no motor/trans, paint, no interior, etc. and he gets really funny with me and leaves.
He quits coming around for a couple of months, then he shows up one day and says he has done his own figuring and he thinks it should be more like $6-7K. I look at his numbers and naturally has he only thought of about 25% of the things he needs and as I add them the figures go up to 18K pretty fast. Then I estimate the time and he says " you mean your were going to charge me labor?"

I tried to explain about the simple things like electricity and heat, let alone all of the consumables I would use, besides the time I would spend. I asked him how much he made an hour and he says $31. I tell him "..ok I will do it for $25 and hour plus expenses.." he says "no but I will give you $10 and hour.." when I say no he gets mad and leaves.

I work full time at a regular job so I don't have alot of extra time. And, I have invested a whole thousands in equipment. So I really don't feel like giving up a lot just to give him his jollies. He is a nice guy but I can't say as he has ever done me any favors. He is one of those guys that will nickel and dime you to death with little requests, like will you weld my lawn mower housing, will you machine a new bushing for my fence gate, can you fab up a new alluminum frame for my barbeque grill.
I am 61 and who know how many years of good health I will have to do my own things. Besides, I have 8 grand kids that all want hot rods too. Am I being selfish? I certainly don't think so, but what do you guys think?

well tell him to hit the road try it in a nice way this is hard to do and i am not any good at it or making money doing jobs. all my customer are friends it hard to tell them to open up there wallet and pay me but a good friends should know you can not work for free .i can do many things in my shop from machine work fab welding and engine machine work making me a taget for many i want you to do it for me Guys that have no money deals .i like to help but some one has to pay the over head

This situation has all the earmarks of becoming a real problem for you. If you take it on you are going to regret it on many levels............financially and the loss of a friend.

But from reading your post, he doesn't seem like a true friend. If he were, he would be more considerate and respectful of you, he is trying to force you to do something you can't possibly do.

This is one of the major reasons we resist doing any work for anyone else. Not only would people we know be wanting stuff done, but they would expect it done NOW at a price we couldn't make a dime at. Plus they would be hanging around all day watching and "helping". People come up and stand outside my cat gate pretty often, and I kinda blow them off because I would never get anything done if I gabbed to each and every one all day.

Tell your friend you have too many irons in the fire and you are getting older, so you can't keep up that pace any longer. I'm your age, and I know I can't do what I once did. I don't have to own a crystal ball to see how this story will end up if you give in.

Don

I just did a job for a friend who is disabled. I was reluctant to take it on, but finally gave in. He paid me $20 per hour, plus materials and he was fine with that. As always we found more problems and it took way longer than anticipated, so this winter I am not getting a project done on my car. But that's OK, he is a good friend. I am going to help another fellow wire his high boy, but he is going to be there with me also working. I don't plan to charge anything for that and am sure that someday when I need some help, he will be there. That will be over at his place where he is not tying up my shop.

Pat

Send him down the road to one of the shops in the area ,that turns out high end work ,like your stuff and I bet he sees the light......have him get 3 different estimates like a insurance company does........in my mind 7 grand would about cover the engine ,tranny and rear end....unless he wants a stock 302 in there.....

Thanks guys, That is the way I am feeling at the moment. I know that I have been blessed with the the opportunity to aquire certains skills and the money to invest in good equipment and others may not have been as fortunate. I had a preacher friend once tell me it was "stretching my soul" to do favors but there has to be limits.
I guess if he wants to be my friend he will have to overlook this situation. He really can't afford to do it, and I think it will just end up as one more barn find for someone else.

I'll just reinforce what's already been said in my own little way.

Let's see; he's told you you don't know what you're talking about, you don't deserve to make a decent living, he get's mad when you tell him the truth. And you're giving this situation ANY thought at all? If he's a friend I'd hate to see what your enemies treat you like! Take a tip from Nancy Reagan.............Just say no!!! BTW, this IS the sugar coated version.

never do work for friends or relatives .. simple as dat

what hoss said, business with friend or family is the quickest way to having enemys!

Friends don't ask for favors, they exchange them evenly. I have two older friends who've helped me out quite a bit. It has been hard to find what I can do to recipricate! So I pay them, or buy lunch etc.. These are my old fishing buddies. Their stories are the best of all! What I won't ever do is ask for a favor without offering fair compensation!
True friends understand this, the user friends don't. Great sorting tool. Plus think of all the extra time you'll have if he's not hanging around taking you away from your paying customers!

"friends don't ask friend for favors"

That is the way I feel too. I believe everybody deserves to make their wages whenever they are using their job skills. I melted a couple of 220 breakers in my shop panel and I am having a friend replace the entire panel tommorrow. He works at the University as an electrician. I told him I supply all of the materials and tools and would pay his regular union scale wages per hour and buy he and his family dinner tomorrow as his "benefits" package. He tried to say he'd "just do me a favor" but finally agreed. I think that is a fair agreement don't you? I wish my other "friend" felt the same way about my labor.

There is "NO Way" you are going to win with this guy, i've had to deal with shop lizzards before. The only answer is Hot Rods are a hobby and he needs another hobby.

If you don't stop this right now, it will haunt you from now on, not only will this guy let you kill your self trying to please him,( and i promise you he don't give a damn if you sink or swim) he will be the first to bad mouth you.

Just remember, you do what you do because you like it!!!!! you will get to where you hate it on account of this jerk. put your mind at ease and send him away, when he bad mouth's you, "he was going to anyway" because some where down the line he will get his panties in a wad no matter what you do.

I do this for a living and before i will do anything for anybody, i explain costs of doing a job and if i feel i can get along with the person we go from there. If not i thank them for thinking of me and they should go somewhere else because i can't afford to work for them.

Nuff Said

It's a tough thing to do , but just tell him you can't take on the project. If he was a true friend he would not ask this of you. I have helped out friends but not if it meant taking away from my living. If you were charging 25 dollars per hour for labor here in Jersey the cars would be lined up around the block waiting to get into your shop.

I've got bit to many times helping people for nothing...Enough said

Thanks
Harmon

This is a touchy subject, judging by all the replys. I have been on both sides, doing work for a so called friend for nothing, and refusing to do the work for little or nothing. The guy is a user as Denny said; folks like that will run you into the ground if you let them. Take care of your grandkids, and your own wants. He can look elsewhere, or maybe already has. Either way, you're better off, you will be sorry if you take that job on.