Thread: New Project 63 Thunderbird!

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I don't know how major a project you want to make out of this car. Being a fairly heavy car, I'd go with a 460/aod combo,even if I had to cut away all the front suspension and shock towers,reinforce the framerails with 2x4 steel and add a mustang stlye suspension with airride. You'll probably take a couple hundred lbs off the front end too. I'm not giong to say you could do it for less than 3 grand though. Hank

Thank you for the links to the stroker kits. That cammer engine sure looks sweet! Like pops said we did the measurements and a SBF would fit with room to spare (no header clearance issues at all) You can get a lot of torque out of a SBF for sure. Every Lincoln towncar or Ford Full size I have owned from the 80's had one and they weighed ever bit as much as this t bird. They were only 180 hp too! My t scoots with the 85 roller engine in it (obviously weighs much less) The internet sites list my car at approx. 4500 pounds with a 390 setup. Dual quads on a built 302 would move that tbird respectfully. I am leaning towards the 390 though. Theres something to be said for a big block Heres a pic of the 302 in my t during the build. This would not look bad either. Easy to find parts for! P.S. NO SBC POPS! NOT IN A TBIRD! love a sbc though!

Well, if you wanted to make a genuinely cool ride you'd use one of these;

Bob what is that beast?

This may not be the best choice for a prime mover in this particular project, but it just goes to show what you can do with a 302 Ford and is interesting in the fact that this is an actual dyno build.
Wedge heads, pocket ported, 2.02/1.600
Flow as follows:
0.200" 140/109
0.300" 191/143
0.400" 234/165
0.500" 257/177
0.550" 261/177
9.0:1 static compression ratio
1000 CFM
Paxton Novi 2000 centrifugal blower, 10 psi
Comp XE274H cam 0.520"/0.523", 274*/286*, 106* ICL, 114* ECL, 110 LSA

rpm tq hp
2000 475 180
2500 515 245
3000 555 315
3500 605 405
4000 630 480
4500 625 535
5000 615 585
5500 590 615
6000 565 650
6500 540 660
7000 500 660

This test was done with a flat tappet hydraulic cam. The cam card says this cam signs off at 6000, but that's with natural aspiration. With 10 pounds of boost and a little more valve spring on a roller tappet grind with the same valve events should pull to 7000 in my opinion.

Originally Posted by stovens

Bob what is that beast?

Just a nice little 4.6 mod motor,..........................with a few modifications by Karkraft.

Don if you do decide to go with a 390-428 build check out Keith Craft's prices on stroker kits. He been posting some really good prices ($1495) on his stroker assys in the classifieds at www.fordfe.com Also keep an eye there for a block or good core engine. I agree with the guys on the stock exhaust manifolds. Might be worth it to cut back the shock towers to get some good headers in there. 460 is a nice option too and bang for buck you'll get more than a FE. Lots of good choices. Prices are pretty reasonable and coming down a bit overall. Looks like a fun project too!!!

Good luck,

Glenn.

We did a quick eyeball on the engine room one night, he has about 27 inches between the towers. Don is kind of leaning toward finding a rebuildable 390 or maybe a 428 for this one. We have never played with either engine, so we know zero about them, but it looks like that will change as we do more research.

I think the 4.6 engine would make an interesting swap, and Don has a little experience with them because of the 03 Mach I he owned. I would imagine there are enough of these in wrecking yards now with AOD's behind them that one with low miles could be picked up reasonably. I bet there are harness kits to do the street rod thing with them too so you could run the fuel injection and eliminate a lot of the extra pollution stuff like cats, sensors, etc that wouldn't be needed. Dan is close to buying a Mustang GT, so we would have an engine room to measure for width, length, and to see what would be in the way.

In any event, this is one that he will be taking his time on. He has mentioned that the T bucket build wasn't as much fun as it could have been because of the short period of time we took to build it..........every night was a rush to get things done, and it really wore all of us out. This one is going to be his plaything, something he can do at a leisurely pace.

I think he is like Dan and I too in another respect, we are tired of spending money on our projects and need a little break. Right now neither of us have any desire to be doing anything on our rods, but that will change after we lick our wounds a little. We are all in that little valley you sometimes hit in a project where you just want to go off and fish or play golf or something.......anything at all except turn one more bolt on your car.

Don

I hear ya Don. Body work was slow and frustrating this summer. It was nice to let the truck sit for a few weeks and go on a nice hot rod free vacation. Just getting my second wind now. I also like the slow and enjoy approach. Fortunately my/or not my budget sort of dictates my progress. It's great you guys have eachother for support and also to entertain us with your excellent builds. Looking fowartd to seeing this bird fly again.

Hello all,
Sorry no replys this week as I have been swamped with work (No work, no Tbird) I found on Craigslist a 68 390 out of a galaxy for $200. I went and picked it up Monday night. He threw in a stock 4 barrel intake too. (weighs about 300 pounds!) Engine spins freely. Could not beat the price even if I don't use it. (Pictures below) How can I verify the year and CID of this beast?(I forgot how big these engines are, GEEZ) Any info would be great!

That 302 build looks like a screamer! Really gets the wheels turning in my head for sure. There is no way that combo would not make a great engine for the Bird to be sure. hmm....

I love the 4.6 Ford Mod motors. As dad said I had a 2003 Mach1 Mustang with the 4.6L DOHC engine (AWESOME KAR KRAFT PICS BY THE WAY, I want to put the blown version of that engine in a Model A sedan project I have dreamt up in my head someday) Same Kar Kraft Companies that built the Boss 429 Mustangs in the late 60's. My Mach one was a screamer right off the show room floor.

Pops is right about being "tired" a bit from spending $$$ on cars. I enjoy going to the shop and even just sitting on a stool staring at the next step on the T Bird (firing up the T every once in a while to hear the rumpy rump )
Let me know your thoughts on the 390 I found. Thanks for all the input! Don Jr

Hey Glenn, Thanks for the FE engine Weblink and info. Very helpful! Don Jr

Hey Don, sounds like you might have tackled the engine ID for this one, if not here is a goood link http://www.fordification.com/engineIDtags.htm
and here http://www.fordification.com/engineID.htm
The block should be stamped with a number like C8 C= 1960's 8= the specific year of the 1960's in this case 1968.
and you should be able to see the block casting # on the side as shown herehttp://www.aacncclub.com/FORD_BLOCK_CASTING.html#390fordblock

Those are a fairly light big block if you get an aluminum intake for it..

More engine I.D. info which if you check your block should state C8AE
The breakdown of casting number C8OE-9430-D is easy using the charts below:
C = Decade of 1960
8 = Year of the decade (8th year of 1960), 1968
O = Fairlane Car line / Manufacture code
E = Engine engineering department
9430 = Basic number for an exhaust manifold
N = Design change
Casting Number Breakdown Charts
Decade of Manufacture:
A = 1940
B = 1950
C = 1960
D = 1970
E = 1980
Year of Decade
The year of the decade is determined by adding a number (0-9) to the letter of
the decade. Example: C6 would be 1966, D0 would be 1970, D1 would be 1971.
Car Line/ Manufacture Codes
A = Galaxie
D = Falcon (60-69)
F = Outside USA, Trans Am racing
G = Comet / Montego
J = Industrial
M = Mercury
O = Fairlane / Torino
P = Autolite / Motorcraft
R = Rotunda
S = Thunderbird
T = Truck
V = Lincoln (61 - current)
Z = Mustang
Engineering Departments
A = Chassis
B = Body
E = Engine
F = Engine accessories
J = Autolite (67-72)
P = Automatic transmission
R = Manual transmission
W = Axle
X = Muscle parts program
Y = Lincoln / Mercury service parts
Z = Ford service parts
Basic Number
These identify the part, such as 6090 being a cylinder head or 9430 being an
exhaust manifold.
Design Change
A Basic part is made to fit many applications. Example:
DOZZ-7528-C is a clutch bar for a 390/428
DOZZ-7528-D is a clutch bar for a 351 W
DOZZ-7529-E is a clutch bar for a 302 Boss
Reading Casting Dates
Casting dates:
Casting dates show the exact day, month and year a certain part was made or
cast. The typical casting date looks like "6M08".
Breaking down a casting date:
6 = The year of the decade. "6" for 1976.
M = The letter of the month. (December)
08 = The day of the month. (8th)
First year month codes:
ABCDEFGHIJKLM
JanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugN/ASepOctNovDec

Second year month codes:
NOPQRSTUVWXYZ
JanN/AFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec

How do casting numbers appear?
Most casting numbers are stamped into the part itself, other have the number
molded on the part. Some casting numbers can be ink stamped while others are
printed on paper, which is then wraped around the part.
FE Casting Numbers
Blocks (C1AE8015C)
390 cid
C1AE-CC1AE-GC1AE-VC2AE-BC
C2AE-BEC2AE-BRC2AE-BSC2SE
C3SE-AC3AE-KYC3ME-BC3AE-AY
C4AE-DC4AE-FC5AE-AC5AE-B
C6MEC6ME-AC8AE-AC8AE-C
C8AE-ED3TE-1D3TE-ACD3TE-HA
D4TE-ACD7TE-BA

Thank you for the info! Will get on those date codes as soon as I can get over to the shop this weekend. That darn intake manifold weighs a ton! Need to lighten it up somehow. Aluminum intake, tubular headers, weight watchers