Thread: New Project 63 Thunderbird!

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Daffy 427-That "352" is sneaky to be sure! I bet that fooled a few people

Ken, I have admired your rides for a while now. Perhaps you know as much about Tbirds as we do then Loved your 32 pick up featured in the Oct 2008 Street rodder. Awesome Ride. I noticed you have good taste in shift knobs! (Same one in my T) I will try to pry Dan away from the dark side of the force (forum) , but it is tough! Lucky to have them both for backup on all of my projects and they are my best friends (good to have talented friends) Take care, Don Jr.

Hi again Don(s), looks like the decision has been made on the motor. I think you'll find it will move the car just fine, I was always happy with the tired old 390 in the one I had. When I built the replacement FE for my old Bird (the engine that's in the 64 Custom now), I ended up putting an RV style cam in it. From what little bit I've driven the 64 it was definitely the right choice. I do miss not having a lumpy sounding idle, but man the power is great. The FE's are not a real tight winding engine anyway; unless you want to spend some time working over the oiling system a bit.

By the way there is a pretty good FE Forum over at (if you haven't found it already)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/

Have you decided on an intake yet? Remember you'll want to keep it fairly low for the hood clearance (although you can get rid of the spacer which will get you a little more room). Something you might want to keep in mind when you start looking for one is what valve covers you want to run. Personally I really like the way the stock “ThunderBird” script valve covers look when they have been chromed. The potential problem is they do not have a provision for a PVC or oil fill, as both of those are built into the intake (like the early SBCs). Something that might also look good then the engine is done is the long oval air cleaner (like the factory dual quad/tri-power cars ran. I think PAW still sells these in both dual quad and single 4 BBL versions.

A couple of other things I recalled on the Cruso trannys, I don’t know if they were still using them in 63 but in 61 Ford was still using the old style starter with the long shaft and the Bendix on the end that pulled into the flexplate from the back side (like the old flatheads used. Also the trans is also likely a “green dot”. Basically when you put it in Drive, the car starts out in second gear. The number 2 position (noted with a green dot on the shift indicator) is the position you put the selector if you want to actually start in first and shift like a normal transmission.

By the way does you 63 have a swing-away steering column? If not do you want one??? I “think” I still have one from a 63 Bird I parted out several years ago. I’m doing the vacation thing for the next week and a half or so and I’ll check when I get back home if you need it.

I too want to welcome you to the site. I've enjoyed your dad's build on the 3K (or was that 30K lol-been there, done that) and Dan's RPU. Look forward to your 'bird build. Have always had a soft spot for them next to model A's.

I think you will enjoy the the build at a "slower" pace than on your T.

Earl

The transmission had the pull-back starter thru 64 and they didn't change to the modern 1 2 drive shift pattern untill 66...

Yeah, his starter is HUGE. It does look like the old flathead ones, come to think of it.

Don

Don the ribs on the blocks started in 69 and continued thru DIF production till mid 74 when they closed that foundry down. The new MCC foundry or casting center as it was known as came online I believe sometime mid 71. Both 427 and 428 blocks remained cast at the DIF foundry while the new thinwall cast 360-390 and FT blocks were all now cast at MCC. 428 blocks were still cast well into 74 at DIF. 427's tappered off in 72.

Anyway if there is no casting number present you can always check the date code. It's right below the oil filter adapter pad on the little angled part of the block. Number/Letter/Number(s) format for Year/Month/Day example 8J20 is 68/Sept/20th. If you see what looks to be 2 dots under the first number it means the block is a 69 or later example. To say tell a 59 from 69 decades apart besides some casting differences. Common not to find a casting number on 68 and later blocks. Some had em and some didn't. By 71-72 they were dropped on DIF blocks. MCC blocks sometimes have the casting number in the lifter valley rather than the side of the block.

The heads casting number is cast on them between the center 2 spark plug holes. My guess C8AE-6090-H as these were the bread and butter heads from then. Later D2TE-6090-AA were the same basic casting with a few revisions. Head date codes are between the center 2 valve springs under the VC's. You can compare the numbers and date codes to see what's original to the engine.


The net54 forum is a very good one. Archives and search engine with very good info on about any topic. Keith C, Barry R, Blair P and some other builders hang there. Be sure to check out Jay Brown and RWJ's cammer builds!!

I've copied the numbers you provided and will check them against the engine today when I go to the shop. The intake manifold did have a 69 year code on it.

Thanks for the info on the ribs. This one supposedly came out of a 68 Galaxy, but it could be a late 68 maybe, getting a 69 style block. I'm pretty sure this engine has never had any parts swapped, everything seems original.

Don

That's very possible. Could have also been a warranty item as well if the block has a later date code. Good luck!!

I tore down a 302 from a 68 Galaxy, and talk about sludge! I'm betting it was a quaker state oil user, whom never changed it, just topped it off! I can honestly not tell you how the oil was getting out of the heads. When I pulled the valve covers, they were totally crudded up except where the rocker arms rocked. But I'll give this for Quaker state... it really does protect the motor, right up to the point it chokes it to death! That engine was in excellent condition. The mains even spec'ed out ( outside tolerance ) with plastigage. I chipped and scraped the sludge out, ( ran a wire thru the push rods ) washed it all down with gas, slapped in a new timing chian and gears, and a high volume oil pump, and threw it back together. That motor ran for years after that.

Don,
If you can find the fall issue of Rod & Kulture magazine there is a nice T bird on the cover and some good shots inside.
Ken

Originally Posted by stovens

Wow, YOU DA MAN How did you do that?

just a quick save to photobucket and then posting of the image back. Wish the truck was this easy!

Originally Posted by stovens

just a quick save to photobucket and then posting of the image back. Wish the truck was this easy!

You obviously have me confused with someone that knows what you are talking about
Ken

Thank you all for the advice.
FFR 427 thank you for the help with the block info. You certainly know your stuff when it comes to these FE engines It was a sludge monster, but seems rebuildable (Crank and pistons will come out this week when I get time to finish the teardown) Firebird 77 looks like you had the same issue! The numbers FFR 427 posted for the "bread and butter heads" are exactly what I have. the intake is a 69 2 barrel. I have decided to build this engine as a crusier and not for "max performance". I figure through duals this car will have a nice "burble" and get me down the road respectfully. I figure if I want a speed rush I have the t bucket or my 2004 Z06 Vette for that duty. I just want to cruise 2 inches off the ground with my doo wop playing.
The Engine included a 68 4 barrel intake with it, however the weight of the thing and hood clearance issues worry me. Pops saw a 63 Thunderbird specific intake on ebay this weekend and it does not look any lower than what I have. I really want the thunderbird Tri power, but know how rare they are to find. I wonder if the performer Edelbrock intake would clear my hood??? For valve covers I like the Thunderbird script covers too. From my early post of the engine you can see that the 390 came with a neat set of finned aluminum "cal custom" style cover. I may use those too (bead blast them, paint them the desired color and wipe clean the fins)

Mike, My car does have "Swing away"" steering" I heard it was an option in 61 and 62 and standard in 63. How does that option operate (vacume?) thanks for all of your insite! I have never owned a cruiso matic and do not know if it is worth using?? Not tons of info online either. Mine looks clean though.

Ken and Stovens. What a great Tbird! Love that Top chop! That sure would look sweet in my ride (Dan are you listening?) I will have to pick up that issue to be sure. Loving working on this project at my own pace.

Thanks again all for all the help, Don Jr.