Thread: Powder coating frame versus painting.

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

Pat I'm too cheap to pay that either, but heck my truck doesn't have the potential to be a show quality truck, Dan's does. His work is incredible, and it's up to him, to chose what to do and how much to spend. Right now his truck is nice enough to park on mirrors!
For me a quart of Por 15 is pretty exensive!

Originally Posted by stovens

Pat I'm too cheap to pay that either, but heck my truck doesn't have the potential to be a show quality truck, Dan's does. His work is incredible, and it's up to him, to chose what to do and how much to spend. Right now his truck is nice enough to park on mirrors!
For me a quart of Por 15 is pretty exensive!

i have been involved in a truck that could be park on mirrors and some cars to i been there done that at the end he will i am sure do a good job there no short cut s to quality paint work i am with dave i would not spend 4000 on a frame when i have painted for over 30 years and know what i can make the out come look like if i want to spend the time on some thing.i been there and done it way to many times

Stovens, Man I'm aware of prices in California, I just moved to Alabama from Sunnyvale, CA which is 8 miles North of San Jose. But the qoute referred to "Reduced Cost". And I ask Reduced from what?

I built a dozen or so cars in CA. Everyone of them had some powder coating on it, someplace. I never found the price of powder coating to be all that high, I also just stopped using powder coating not becuase of the cost but becuase of the quality or lack of that.

Powder coating is a good and durable finish, it will take just about anything you can throw at it and just set there and laugh. But in some places on my car's I want looks and appearance over durable, and to my experiance powder Coating fails the looks and appearance each and every time. But your milage may vary!

Roland

Originally Posted by Hombre259

STREETWERKZ, Thanks for posting the cost of one of these powder painted frames. I am sure you and your shop do good work, and I personally think you should be paid "Your" price for "Your" work, but in your first post you state and I quote "Reduced Cost" your words not mine. Well that brings to mind a question. For your stated price of between $1,000 and $4,500 dollars just what are you comparing your "Reduced Cost" against? It's gotta be something like oh maybe Gold Plating or something like that. It sure is not for a good old fashioned Paint Job.

Roland

reduced cost is our standard powder job.

we have a good, better, best program for coating.

our good powder job for a frame would include, blasting, sanding out major imperfections, phosphate chemical wash, then single stage powder.
95% of our customer get, and love this service.
typical frame up to 120 wb is around $600 - $700 + tax out the door ( which you can not buy good quality primer, paint reducer ect for, let alone apply, sand, ect...)

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

With all this good info, we are leaning more and more toward powder coating. Streetwerkz, you are going to be a great contributor to this forum, thank you so much for your honesty and obviously experienced suggestions. Two more questions:

1) Ok, Lab metal is out! What filler do you use and recommend and where do I get it? How easy is it to sand and fair?

2) After doing the filling steps, and sanding, does the frame need blasted again to give it tooth so the powder sticks?

Oh, and a third question. When you mention those prices for a "roller" what exactly do you include in that? How about a frame as I pictured?


Thanks to everyone again, this sort of community input really helps a guy make a good decision.

Don

third attempt to reply answer

1) it's a product made by Tiger Drylac, available to powder coaters.
I'm not sure if you can get it
it's harder to sand than normal "bondo"

2)Blast first, then fill, then pre treat, the coat

3)frame as pictured for minimal body work $600 and up
keep in mind that powder builds about 5-7 mills thick, and most powder self level in the cure cycle.
most minor dings, waves, and imperfections will take care of themselves.

Originally Posted by Hombre259

Stovens, Man I'm aware of prices in California, I just moved to Alabama from Sunnyvale, CA which is 8 miles North of San Jose. But the quote referred to "Reduced Cost". And I ask Reduced from what?

I built a dozen or so cars in CA. Everyone of them had some powder coating on it, someplace. I never found the price of powder coating to be all that high, I also just stopped using powder coating not because of the cost but because of the quality or lack of that.

Powder coating is a good and durable finish, it will take just about anything you can throw at it and just set there and laugh. But in some places on my car's I want looks and appearance over durable, and to my experience powder Coating fails the looks and appearance each and every time. But your milage may vary!

Roland

true, like paint if it's just slapped on then it's just slapped on.
just like paint, it's in the pre treatment, and handling through out the project that makes or breaks the finish.
alot of powder coaters I have found are set up to do a commercial product, which has a slam bam thank you ma'am mentality.
get it out the door as quickly as possible, for as much profit as possible.
which has it place, however when you want more you have to fine a specialist.
A company perhaps who specialize in custom auto parts, and not 3500 widget per day.

These are photos of my powdercoated frame. The coater blasted off my original DuPont etch primer and Black Centari from the frame, body, running board and fender brackets, a bolt in crossmember, plugged 90+ holes and did it all for $480



There is a bit of peel, but not excessive. I originally had a very nice paint job on the frame, but it really scratched up while working on it and can only guess how bad it would have been after driving the car for a while. I've dropped fasteners, wrenches and body parts on it with no more then a minor scuff that was polished out. When I equate the number of hours that I originally spent getting it ready, then having to redo my work again after the first paint job decided that powder was the way to go. Then since I really couldn't get into the inside of the boxed frame at all that cinched the deal. And Don, in Florida's mystical and salty climate, that's the only sure way never to have rust streaks coming from unused openings

Dave W you got a deal. Sounds like a lot of work and it looks great.
Pat - I wasn't insulting anybody's abilities, just my own. With hard work and prep paint jobs look better, I imagine it is the same for powder coating. If it took 20 hours of prep, in Ca your going to get charged by the hour for the prep, then there is material costs and some profit to pay the rent. Things are very expensive out here at shops with the reputation to get the job done right the first time.
I also agree that I'd rather do as much of the prep as possible to keep the prices down. There are some people out here with lots of bucks and no desire, or time to do it themselves and they would gladly pay for somweone else to do it right.
Now back to Don's original questions, about price ranges, what fillers to use and Dan doing the prep, I'm sure that would lower costs significantly.
Don I found this web page with info on fillers for powder coating, hope it helps. Steve
http://www.finishing.com/1600-1799/1605.shtml

Don, here is a web site for powder coating. It's the site that I found streetworkz listed.
WWW.customcoaters.com
You can search for coaters in florida on that site.
BradC

I'm really glad I posted this thread and asked these questions, not only for the decision we are trying to make, but for anyone else who might consider this option in the future. Every post tilts the scale a little further in the direction of powder coating for us. Streetwerkz, it was very helpful for you to share your professional opinion to the mix. I never got to personally say welcome to the forum, so here goes........Welcome to the forum.

My Son called our local coater yesterday and they want to meet with him and go over some options. They echoed a lot of what Streetwerkz posted, so it sounds like they might be able to do a good job for us. They did his wheels, and we were happy there, and the cost was only $ 50 per wheel. The price you quoted isn't too scary, because by the time a person buys all the prep and paint supplies needed to do the job it isn't cheap either. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and shell out some bucks to get the results you are after.

I remembered too that one day recently we took a boat out for seatrial, a high end 37 center console, and the rails, tower, and lots of other trim were powder coated white. It was really smooth and such a nice change from stainless that most companies use. When Ken made the comment about his trailers being nice I remembered that boat and how impressed we all were.

I am going to find out about the filler Streetwerkz mentioned, I saw that name on a website. If our local coater can and will get it for us we will probably go with it. When we get this frame done I'll post some pictures and hopefully it will come out as nice as the one IC2 had done.

Don

Little update. Just spoke to Dan, he met spoke with the guy at the powder coater today and they told him without hesitation they could do exactly what ever stage of perfection he wants. They work with some company who will come in and fill and fair it, and do exactly the steps Streetwerkz outlined. In fact, they said they can send a rep to the shop to look at the frame to help us make some decisions.

That pretty much cinches it, we are going to bust tail getting the final work done on it this weekend and drop it off Monday and let them do it all. Dan didn't want U bolts going over the front crossmember, so today he ordered the weld on front bolt kit from Pete and Jakes, which are coming overnight. That just leaves some small welding to be done on the new support tubes we added last weekend, and that should be it.

Maybe by the following weekend we can pickup a finished black frame and start bolting on the shiny stuff. Thanks again guys for helping us make this decision.

Don

Well since the powder coat vs paint issue has already been cleared up, I'll just comment on the chassis. STUPENDOUS! I can't wait to see it in person. Don you guys are making us back yard amateurs look like, well, amateurs. I'll see you, Dan, and Don at Billetproof and I expect that RPU to be there too. That and J Robinsons car will be the highlight for me.

Good for you, sounds like you found a coater who knows how to do custom!!

Tiger Drylac Epo Strong really is the only product out right now that works.
We have trial and error test every other product we could find, the rest have failed miserably

Oh yeah, you are quite the beginner, aren't you?? In case anyone hasn't seen the latest incarnation of Bill's Deuce, take a look at these pictures. This is a study in patience, and craftsmanship. I cheat and use pop rivets, but not Gastrick........he uses the real thing.

This car just looks so much like it should have rolled out of the '50's. and the new hemi sure looks sweet in there.

Don

Originally Posted by STREETWERKZ

Good for you, sounds like you found a coater who knows how to do custom!!

Tiger Drylac Epo Strong really is the only product out right now that works.
We have trial and error test every other product we could find, the rest have failed miserably

Thank you for all the info. That is the one we are going to insist on.


Don